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by mskar 1383 days ago
It's very expensive, carriers have an economic incentive to simplify it and this is still where they end up. There are a long tail of provider circumstances that the single-payer model will need to figure out. Some examples:

* Small hospitals in low-density, underserved areas have to make up for underutilized equipment and personnel costs. They raise prices on unrelated, common procedures to break even (This is very common)

* CMS (medicare/medicaid) sets a low price for a procedure that's overly common in a particular facility, now that facility loses money for each occurrence. They choose other procedures to raise the price to try to break even.

* Larger hospitals have higher administrative and operations costs (for things like training and research) that benefit society, but need to be averaged out across all procedure costs. This differs from hospital to hospital.

* Smaller professional facilities or physicians groups (like Ambulatory Surgery Centers) have much lower administrative costs and a smaller staff, so they have lower overhead per procedure. They are designed to be efficient, and can handle lower prices. However if there are any major complications, they won't be able to service the patient, and have to send to a hospital. This then pushes all the highest-cost, ICU-type procedures into hospitals, where there is already a higher overhead, causing hospitals to need separate pricing to cover more complex patients.

A large single payer price set will probably force efficiencies into the healthcare system. It'll be great for folk's costs, but we may see many facilities close, and lines of care will be consolidated into specialty centers. (more travel to get imaging, procedures, or to see a specialist)

2 comments

What do you think about how Kaiser has handled the whole thing? The insurance company employing the doctors and just paying them a standard salary seems to create all the right incentives.
My experience in talking to people with chronic conditions that aren’t easily treatable is that Kaiser’s model works great until anything that’s slightly out of the ordinary happens, and then it falls apart. If you’re a zebra (as in “when you hear hooves, think horses, not zebras”), their model is pretty horrible.
The best thing about Kaiser, IMHO, is there is never a surprise out-of-network astronomical charge on the bill as I've seen with regular insurance.
Isn't it pretty bad to be a zebra in general though? Certainly there isn't any place where zebras have it better than horses.
Yes but if you're at Kaiser in San Francisco and have a zebra there may only be one doc (or a small group) at UCSF that can treat your zebra, and they are not in the Kaiser network, so you go to Los Angles where Kaiser's specialist is, get treated by a lesser doc with a virtual visit assist from LA, or pay cash out of network.
I think their point is that it's relatively better under another system, not that it's amazing there.
Have insurance split into two parts, the 95% cases and the rare and expensive?
Sounds like they have intelligently optimized for the common case.
>>* CMS (medicare/medicaid) sets a low price for a procedure that's overly common in a particular facility, now that facility loses money for each occurrence. They choose other procedures to raise the price to try to break even.

This is precisely why most Doctors I speak with are abhorrently against a single payer system.

Most doctors I talk to vaguely run around the answer before mumbling that a huge way to cut costs (which will surely happen) is to cut doctors salaries.

Source: once engaged to a doctor who had doctor friends and doctor parents/family.

And there is a reason why we shouldn't go off of anecdotal evidence. It's blatantly false.

Doctors’ salaries account for only about 8% of U.S. healthcare costs. A 40% cut in these salaries would reduce healthcare spending by only about 3% [1][2].

Doctor salaries are not a huge way to cut costs. If anything this would make the problem worse.

[1] https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2021-09-14/dont-blame-...

[2] https://pnhp.org/news/doctors-salaries-are-not-the-big-cost/

It’s not false that doctors worry that. Doctors worry that single payer system will reduce their salaries. They’re an easy political target. They’re rich and (in this hypothetical case) their salary would come from the taxpayers. Taxpayers don’t like expensive salaries.

It’s irrelevant how much of the budget it is. It’s about perception and power. If you try to cut soap in the operating room or other supplies, you’ll look bad for endangering the patient. If you try to cut procedures you’ll look bad. If you try to cut doctor salaries, those “overpaid” doctors look bad for complaining.

Doctors have a reputation in america for being extremely well paid. If you tel people making $60k a year that their tax bill for medical costs could be lower if you reduce it by taking $50k from a doctor making $500k (taxpayer dollars!) they’ll support that. Even if it’s not a big amount.

Reducing healthcare spending 3% without any systemic change in medical treatments or equipment or negotiation with pharmaceutical companies is a huge and easy win.