[jeffbee]

Two that I hear constantly: rooftop solar and urban gardening (or "farming" if you must). Both are ecological catastrophes when they prevent the effective use of cities to house people in energy-efficient buildings with low demand for transportation. Protecting rooftop solar with "solar access rights" is something that some find superficially green but is actually ruinous.

[CatWChainsaw]

What is the problem with urban gardening? On a rooftop, greenery would help with the heat, and I find it difficult to believe that greenery in a space which otherwise has none would be an "ecological catastrophe".

[jeffbee]

There isn't anything wrong with urban gardening itself. The problem comes when anti-development groups impose policies to prevent any building from casting a shadow on anything. Greenery and open space are both good and important, and gardening is a fine hobby. But urban gardens don't feed anyone and if there is a choice between housing people in an existing city, or protecting an existing garden from shadows, we should choose the housing every time.

Same thing goes for rooftop solar power: it's fine, but protecting it is not important.

[matkoniecz]

> The problem comes when anti-development groups impose policies to prevent any building from casting a shadow on anything

OK. But how it makes

> rooftop solar and urban gardening (or "farming" if you must). Both are ecological catastrophe

claim true?

[jeffbee]

Just going from my local experience. The build-nothing approach to housing in Berkeley, championed by zucchini-hugging (google it) hippie morons, combined with the solar access ordinance that prevents development even along major transit corridors. This has caused an explosion of car-dependent exurban sprawl in former wilderness, wetlands, and farms.

[matkoniecz]

> Just going from my local experience.

OK, that makes more sense.

> zucchini-hugging (google it)

Nothing relevant gets found

[CatWChainsaw]

That makes sense, thank you for clarifying.

[Schroedingersat]

Even tokyo has enough rooftops to provide most of its electricity, and your apartment building can be twice as dense if you make it twostories and cover the whole lot rather than dedicating half of the block to a driveway, dedicating the first floor to parking and making it three story.

If you limit the neighbor to n stories at the boundary and n+1 at a setback of the winter noon sun angle where n is the current building then you can get your solar cake and eat it too.

Agree on the urban farming front (delicious lead). Although when done right, high mass yield, refrigerated, low calorie produce can be a net neutral or minor win there and should he considered as reasonable as any other hobby. There is also something to be said for the follow on effects of praxis, even if the immediate effects are minor.