[herbst]

30% or more of Switzerland is not useable for any kind of farming other than cattle. Fertilizers in the Alps are heavily discouraged. Less than 5% of the food for cows is imported. The far majority is produced trough the same grass the herds spent their time on.

And to round this up there is a relatively okish label jungle so you can know exactly which kind of farming you support.

Just because beef isn't the solution for the world hunger doesn't mean it's not the best possible and probably even most ecological solution in some areas.

[myshpa]

We would not need cca 75% of our agricultural lands if stopped overindulging in meat/dairy.

Those 30% you're talking about is not the only land your cattle herds need ... there is also corn/seeds/alfaalfa etc. produced somewhere.

Beef needs 120x more land than plant-based foods for the same amount of calories.

Western countries are a model for developing countries. If we base our diets on meat/dairy, they will want the same. We're developed, we have to set a positive/meaningful example.

We would need several Earths to feed the world same diet as westerners eat. It's simply short-sided and selfish to insist upon current practices to the detriment of everybody else (& Earth & wild animals & biodiversity etc.).

[herbst]

There is no point in not using the land tho. Especially as cows even play a role in keeping the Alps tourist friendly. The meat I personally buy doesn't contain any crops grown elsewhere. It's 100% from the land around here, there is no need for power crops in cow food if the grass has actual biodiversity.

I totally agree that this isn't sustainable on a bigger scale. I also realize that some people can't afford this kind of meat and the 'dirty' market is always way bigger.

But it's not about a global solution. It's about finding a sustainable way of living where you are.

[myshpa]

> There is no point in not using the land tho.

Reforest it. The tourists will come, and maybe your glaciers will stop melting. Then even skiers may keep coming.

> Especially as cows even play a role in keeping the Alps tourist friendly.

Yes, violet milka cows. We've all seen them. They are the ones which give milk in perpetuity without being forcibly raped every year with their young taken away the first day they're born, milked to their death in five short years (instead of 20+ it would be otherwise), and then sent to the slaughtehouse, because they can't even walk. Serene.

> I also realize that some people can't afford this kind of meat

Sure ... but I don't want to subsidize your food preferences. Without subsidies only the top 0.1% would be able to purchase grass-fed beef. Strangely enough, I'm all for that :)

[herbst]

> Strangely enough, I'm all for that :)

At least this is where we can agree on. In a money based society like ours letting people pay the real price for the minimal quality that could be considered animal friendly would solve a lot of our diet problems

[myshpa]

I think that "animal friendly meat" is an oxymoron, but thank you for your opinion. Have a nice day.