[eshch]

The last sentence is applicable to both sides by the way.

Especially because of https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/08/ukraine-ukrai...

But both sides are hostages of their own politics and narratives of who's good and who's bad.

[kadoban]

Russia is the aggressor, and appeasement is a generally unsuccessful strategy.

[eshch]

It depends on the purposes of the actor and the purpose of the strategy.

[brnt]

The Amnesty report doesn't change my question though: Russian leadership could end this right now by returning its armies home.

[rdtwo]

Not really. The only way this ends is if Europe and Russia cooperate to sell gas. Both parties have to agree.

The actual war is related but not directly needed to end the energy problem.

Even if Russia surrendered there would still need to be cooperation to resume gas sales

[paulryanrogers]

This seems to be a technically. If Russia withdraws from Ukraine tonight then tomorrow Europe would be far more like to take significant steps to get the gas and payment flowing.

[rdtwo]

More likely maybe but there are probably technical hurdles now too. Embargo’s don’t always get lifted. Russia would be forced to pay reputations, and parts aren’t available or repair so can’t be used immediately. It would take months or years to unwind this.

[paulryanrogers]

Doubly down on the war is unlikely to produce a better outcome, for anyone.

[rdtwo]

My points is that the immediate future (3 months) has already been decided in terms of gas prices and availability. Actions now could not meaningful affect that

[eshch]

Well, I was not going to change your question. Why would I?

I'm just going to draw attention to the situation both sides "could put an end to this today, but they won't, because the loss of face is worse than the loss of life."