[acjohnson55]

I used to work for Lexmark, back when they were in the inkjet business. They are perhaps most notable for starting and fueling the race to the bottom in printer price. The theory was that if you could lock the users in, the customer lifetime value would be made on selling profitably prices supplies (i.e. the ink cartridge).

There were a few big problems with this:

- People often could buy a new printer, with supplies included, for cheaper than a new set of cartridges.

- The primary focus of new printer development was on eliminating as much cost as possible.

- Refillers and remanufacturers compete with the official supplies.

The result was an almost completely customer-hostile industry. Printers became worse over the years. DRM and write-only memory were used to try to stop refilling and remanufacturing. Expiry of the ink was considered a good thing, as it would force customers to buy more ink even if they had low usage.

While I was there, Lexmark sometimes made losses by selling too many printers. About a decade ago, they left the inkjet industry, which they had played a major role in wrecking. Laser has come down in price to the point that it has largely supplanted inkjet for light-duty use. The manufacturers in the home/small office laser market haven't been quite as hostile.

Interestingly, we're seeing a similar dynamic play out in the venture-backed startup world of the past decade. What's old is new.

Companies eventually started marketing higher quality machines, targeted towards power users with broader needs. But the era of the bargain inkjet printers seems to be pretty much over. Also, it took an entire generation, but we're finally much further along towards the paperless office/society.

[mu_killnine]

Just an anecdote: my grandfather passed away a few years ago and he was always into new technology. After he passed when we were cleaning up his home we found no fewer than 11 inkjet printers in his basement.

Every time one stopped working (probably ran out of ink, or printed poorly because of long delays between printing) he would go to Best Buy, get talked up by a salesperson about a nice new printer, and buy it.

It's just incredible to see this story in action.

[bluedino]

>> he would go to Best Buy, get talked up by a salesperson about a nice new printer, and buy it.

In a past life I worked at Best Buy, and the standard printer sales tactics were nuts. If a customer wanted to buy a printer, you were supposed to sell them:

  2 packs of color ink (remind the customer that the included cartridges are only half-full)
  2 packs of black ink
  4 reams of regular paper
  2 packages of photo paper
  GOLD printer cable
  The Best Buy Service Plan, of course

[doubled112]

The GOLD printer cable used to get me.

At Staples they also told us something about better USB cables for faster, more reliable printing.

How bad does your existing USB cable need to be before it starts to cause your printing to fail? Stop running it over with your chair.

[muttled]

Reminds me of a story of a printer I installed for a customer (could have been Lexmark? It was a very cheap printer). It came with an unpowered USB hub which I thought was odd. The printer was not printing right. I happened to read the instructions for once out of frustration and it mentioned that you MUST use the USB hub. That didn't make any sense as usually a troubleshooting step is to remove the USB hub. But when I put the hub into the chain, the printer started working correctly. I wish I still had the model number to prove it, but there were knowledgebase articles about the hub being required. Probably to correct some mistake in manufacturing where it was cheaper to include the hub than fix all the printers.

[marpstar]

Fellow former $BBY-er here... you gotta admit, the bundle pricing Best Buy ran on all of that stuff (with the purchase of a new printer, of course) made it so easy to talk them into it.

When I started I had just left commission-based sales in electronics at Sears and I was amazed at how much better Best Buy was at pushing accessories with big ticket items.

[calvinmorrison]

Best Buy has certainly felt the competition though. I went in and got a USB-C to USB-C cable for 8 bucks.

It's nice to see the market drive bad practices away through competition.

[JohnFen]

This kind of thing is one item in the long list of reasons why I stopped shopping at Best Buy.

[gonzo41]

And all 11 of those will still be in landfill when your childrens children are old and dying. It's a pity they didn't make them out of metals that could be easily recycled.

[giancarlostoro]

Just curious what metals would be affordable and durable that would not bring the cost of cheap printers up too high?

[ClumsyPilot]

All of them, Aluminium is 2.49 USD per KG, steel is like 4 times cheaper.

We use plastics because they can be moulded into any shape in seconds. Aluminium is used for premium products instead of steel because it's easier to manufacture into shape - you can cut an aluminium beam as large as your arm with a hacksaw in a minute or two. If that was structural steel, you would batrely make a dent in hours. This reflects on wear of cutting and shaping equipment in factories too.

Stainless steel is the king of materials, but a bitch to work with, that's why you only ever see simple shapes made out of it.

[djmips]

An oxy/acetylene torch can cut steel in seconds. Plasma also.

[gonzo41]

There really aren't any sadly. Maybe cast magnesium, like in sewing machines. It'd be better if the printer was built out of some bio-polymer plastic so it just fell apart after 20 years. But we're rapidly getting to a paperless society so give it 10-20 years it'll be less of an issue.

[ajford]

My dad ran a pet grooming business, and he went through probably a printer a year. I always figured it died because of the amount of pet fur in the air clogging up the printer, so at one point I asked him why he didn't put a door on the office to keep the fur out so his printer wouldn't get jammed up with pet fur.

He told me they weren't replaced because the fur killed them, it just wasn't worth replacing the inks since it was so damn expensive. It was always cheaper for him to replace the printer instead of replacing the ink, and because he never held onto a printer for much longer than a year he never bothered trying to keep it protected from the shop environment.

About the only think he ever printed was the occasional door flyer, checklists and general office paperwork, probably a single ream of paper a year at most.

[Jiro]

They sell you printers with half empty cartridges to prevent [people buying new printers for the cartridges.

[ajford]

They do, but in over a decade that I remember him buying and replacing printers for the groom shop, I think he only ended up buying replacement ink (because he actually used all of it in under a year) maybe twice.

I think that was when the local print shop either shut down or was too backlogged for my dad to get his business cards done in reasonable time so he used print-at-home business card sheets for a bit to tide him over.

[treeman79]

He may have been smart. Cost of printer with starter ink was occasionally cheaper then just getting new ink.

[mu_killnine]

Yeah, totally. He only printed things a few times a year and by then inkjets usually dry and print poorly. I don't fault him but it's interesting to these strange market forces in my life.

As an aside, my grandfather was a terrific guy. He bought a Gateway 2000 PC in the 90's and spent lots of time with me getting Sim City 2000 loaded up on it. He always had some gadget to show me since he knew how much I loved technology and he was very good at it for someone of his generation. I don't begrudge recycling 11 printers as I cleaned up his house and it always gives my dad and I a good laugh and nice memories of an important person in my life.

[tomcam]

Lovely story. Never knew any of my grandparents and my kids chose not to have kids, so no grandchildren to spoil.

[goosedragons]

But incredibly wasteful. For sporadic printing it really makes the most sense to go somewhere where you can print by the page like a public library, office supply store etc. I think I've spent about $2 on printing in the past 5 years.

The most common electronics I see being thrown out these days is some shitty inkjet printer. Unlike a CRT or computer nobody wants them and so they sit by the side of the road for several days.

[xenophonf]

> The most common electronics I see being thrown out these days is some shitty inkjet printer.

I've had a broken HP inkjet on my desk for 10 years. The only reason I've hung onto it is because it makes for a very nice network-connected document scanner. I got it used from one of my spouse's parents, and I haven't ever even tried to print with it. I keep thinking about replacing it with a multifunction laser printer, but why bother? I only ever really need the scanner.

[axelthegerman]

100% agreed, wish the "printing somewhere" experience was better too.

Printed at a print shop, paid 50cts for the prints and $3 to use the computer for 10min trying to print from USB drive

Printed at a library and for the printer could only pay in cash and there was a long line.

[goosedragons]

Ah that sucks. My local library's is pretty good as you can just email the file and use a print release station to print it. They have enough that I've never had to wait. Plus you can add print credit with a debit/credit card if need be.

[Tijdreiziger]

But the starter cartridges are probably only partially filled.

[theandrewbailey]

Does it really matter if you're only printing a dozen or so pages a year? They might dry out before going completely empty.

[nirimda]

But if you bought full cartridges they would be expired or clogged before you half-used them.

[MerelyMortal]

They are these days, but did printers always used to come with "starter cartridges"?

[hnbear]

I got a great deal on a Canon MF743C (a pretty decent color laser multi-function). MRSP is something like $600 (but in deals can be $400).

A guy on FB marketplace was locally selling one brand new for $250 (and took $175 if I picked up same day), because his dad had one that ran out of toner so the father had just bought a new one. It actually came with the new receipts from Best Buy. Looks like BB upsold on lasers too.

Except, it's a low-end business class laser, and they last forever. This thing is great.

[smileybarry]

> - People often could buy a new printer, with supplies included, for cheaper than a new set of cartridges.

I had a friend who would actually do this -- every time they ran out of ink, they'd buy a new printer. I found out when I helped him troubleshoot something and saw 5+ different printer drivers installed.

After he told me about it, he opened the closet door to reveal a (actual) leaning tower of printers

[giancarlostoro]

> - People often could buy a new printer, with supplies included, for cheaper than a new set of cartridges.

I have a relative that does this all the time. Personally, if it costs me more than it cost me to buy a cheap printer to refill it I will likely do the same thing. I just don't print enough to justify.

[simonebrunozzi]

> Interestingly, we're seeing a similar dynamic play out in the venture-backed startup world of the past decade. What's old is new.

Related to the printing industry? (if so, I'd like to hear more)

Or do you mean in general?

[theandrewbailey]

My uncle bought a Lexmark inkjet for my parents about 20 years ago. If anyone wanted to print something, it was a 50% chance there would be some problem (driver issues, wouldn't turn on, ink dried out, etc), and another 50% chance that it would be recoverable and result in an acceptable printout. It was such a piece of crap that it made me avoid printers of all kinds because of the trauma. I swear that the Canon inkjet that came with the old 486 was more reliable.

I got a Canon laser printer 2 years ago. I guess I'm a boomer now.