[hypertele-Xii]

> See, eg, the amount of energy antlered deer (especially males) expend on having large, healthy antlers, purely to compete with other male deer.

Deers have antlers for reasons other than competing with other deer. To defend themselves from predators.

Since they have them, they use them to settle differences in quality. In this case, quality of self-defence.

[watwut]

None of that is hierarchy as we normally use the term.

[hypertele-Xii]

I can't help you if you're determined to normalize nonsense, but that's precisely what 'hierarchy' means. Perhaps you're tunnel visioning on a particular kind of hierarchy, a violent dominance hierarchy. But those haven't been a thing in social animals for a while now, because tyrants meet untimely ends when the herd grows wise.

[msrenee]

>Perhaps you're tunnel visioning on a particular kind of hierarchy, a violent dominance hierarchy. But those haven't been a thing in social animals for a while now, because tyrants meet untimely ends when the herd grows wise.

Violent dominance is a very good way to describe hierarchy in many extant social mammals. Tyrants arise every day in both human and non-human animals. We aren't a century removed from one of the worst here in 2022. Are you thinking of eusocial mammals? The'yre closer to what you're describing here.