This is my pet peeve - why so many people here in the UK strive for mediocrity? Do we really got rid ourselves of any ambitions? When you admit to earning more than £35k you are supposed to feel sorry and apologise for trying and if you are over £80k people look at you as a privileged money pinata, that ideally should be taxed at 100% and keep head down in shame.
For instance, I have been working on a product in my spare time and I don't want to finance it through loans or giving up equity. Having £200k job (only £9,500 net per month) would get me closer to get the required tools, inventory, securing a rent for the workshop and storage, but that still not really too much money for that kind of endeavour. Unfortunately I am coming from a poor working class and I don't have a rich daddy to fund my start up, yet when people learn how much I earn they think I am rich, but reality is that kind of money is not enough to make anything sensible with it (you still have to save for years and live modestly), but people think it's the level of private jets and heated pool in a large back garden of a mansion.
Making a value judgement on someones financial ambition is a little ... weak.
Does it really matter? I'm on £200k gross in the UK, outside London ... but i'm not done climbing that mountain. Of course £200k is "enough" for anyone, but that doesn't mean you can't aim higher.
I might agree with this depending on what the specific goal is. But why should ambition be generally celebrated?
There is certainly ambition that has brought about improvement in life. There has also been ambition applied to the wrong ends or failing that has brought suffering. I'm not sold on the idea that the goal of continually increasing comp above an already luxurious level is meaningful or worth a third party celebrating. I especially feel this way about our industry where comp seems detached from the contributions are not easily attributed/calculated.
It is perfectly valid to believe that OP is probably overpaid in their day job, and also to believe that they are entitled to seek a side gig if they prefer.
Ok... that has nothing to do with my comment. Of course they're entitled to want a side gig. But why is ambition something to be celebrated, especially in the context of this example?
From 168 hours that we all start with in a week, if someone wants to spend 20 of them making their and their family's lives better, why wouldn't we generally encourage that? I certainly wouldn't discourage it and I could be neutral on it, but if I think about, I'd rather they work on a side gig than watch Netflix, doom-scroll, or watch TikToks.
I think the part we're disconnected on is "better". Will a couple extra grand a year make their family's life better beyond the amount they already have? Perhaps physical exercise or relaxing provides more benefit. Of course we probably can't answer this as it's specific to each individual.
I suppose I'm in the camp that finds it skeptical that it would be much benefit at that level. I might also view it as a negative to society as that gig could go to someone who needs it more. Granted we would then be admiring the ambition of the lower earner, which brings me back to me saying that the specifics matter more than generally celebrating ambition.
Most every tech job in the world could go to someone who needs it more. That doesn't make me discourage people from taking tech jobs, nor do I plan to retire when I have the minimum amount needed for a modest retirement.
"Most every tech job in the world could go to someone who needs it more."
Based on the struggle to hire qualified candidates, it seems this is an unrealistic view. Also, there is a difference between someone having a single job, and someone double dipping.
In theory (and in a well functioning system), ambition in a populace leads to GDP growth as ambitious people seek ways to make more money by doing higher value work. This in turn leads to a higher standard of living, possibly for everyone if you redistribute some of the surplus via taxation schemes.
Personally (and more selfishly), I tried to raise my salary to be able to afford not working for extended periods of time.
That makes sense. I'm wondering more about net benefit. Is it really a benefit if our GDP rose if we spend increasing amounts on stuff like healthcare and have shorter lives due to the constant grind of work? I'm not sure we can answer these questions, but I agree with you that as long as the ambition is properly placed and the system works well that it would be good.
It’s a fair question. There is evidence that working increases your life expectancy, at least among men[1], and under the regime of western societal norms.
Working with “ambition” could result in more stresses that counteract this gain. Hard to say.
Also possible that the gain would disappear outside of a culture that places so much value on jobs and wealth.
I'm just genuinely intrigued as to why someone on £200k would want to work more. maybe there's a good reason, like they're an "earn to give" person, or some actual ambition the money will help fulfill, or some expensive health need etc. Maybe they'd like to spend less time with their family. Just wanting to exchange more of your life for more money seems weird to me, if you're already in a position to be able to live in luxury.
In the neighborhood of New York City I live in, buying a 2 bedroom apartment requires you to have a higher yearly income than $250k (~= £200k). The simple desires of (a) wanting space for family and (b) wanting to live in a specific place, can push you to want to earn higher salaries.
Yeah you're right actually, glancing at Rightmove (UK property site), and going by the standard 4.5x mortgage test, you're probably not going to get a decent family home in Central-ish London on £200k. Shit's fucked up.
Edit: To be clear the repayments on a £1m mortgage would "only" be like £60k a year, you only need £>200k to initially buy the place.
> it's about the experience/knowledge gained/distraction/self-worth of accomplishing more
To me, a side gig means accomplishing more of what someone else wants, with the trade-off of being less able to accomplish (or learn about, or distract yourself with) what you want. Which seems like an odd thing to want unless you need the money. I suppose for some people having a £200k income and not needing the money seem less synonymous than they do to me.
>I'm just genuinely intrigued as to why someone on £200k would want to work more.
The money outcome isn't a zero-sum game. If someone works more, they can put that towards their children's education fund, retirement or other investments, or anything else at all.
I'm reminded of Margaret Thatcher's response to this: "He'd rather the poor were poorer, as long as the rich were less rich."[1]
Every ethical dollar earned is a byproduct of value creation. Maybe you meant something more like "as long as he's not ripping off his customers," but otherwise that's an odd thing to say in response to someone who makes good money but is still looking for side jobs.
Oh stop it. Every time we make progress there will be some unequal effect. Some people will benefit and others will lose out. We should do our best to balance the trade offs, but to say someone shouldn’t be ambitious if there is some unequal effect is preposterous and pessimistic.
Why does wage inequality matter? Inequality isn't strongly driven by wages, but is by capital income.
Personally, the way I see it, the more money goes to wages, the better, and if that's because some guy is earning millions a year, I still think it's good.
Income from people starting new companies, that's fine too. What's bad is rent extraction, ossification, monopolies and private institutions that have power over people.
Some people have unique needs and wants. There's also the whole fish growing to fill its aquarium thing. So it's reasonable for them to feel that way, just as it's reasonable for you to feel the other.
That said, I would suggest that at that level of comp, maybe just use the extra time for your own enjoyment - hobby, relaxing, FOSS personal project, etc.
Cant speak for the UK, but all it takes is a disabled child or other complex life situation and the numbers suddenly arent so rosy. I refrain from asking anyone "why do you need more money?" - its their business alone.
For instance, I have been working on a product in my spare time and I don't want to finance it through loans or giving up equity. Having £200k job (only £9,500 net per month) would get me closer to get the required tools, inventory, securing a rent for the workshop and storage, but that still not really too much money for that kind of endeavour. Unfortunately I am coming from a poor working class and I don't have a rich daddy to fund my start up, yet when people learn how much I earn they think I am rich, but reality is that kind of money is not enough to make anything sensible with it (you still have to save for years and live modestly), but people think it's the level of private jets and heated pool in a large back garden of a mansion.