[fffobar]

The most fascinating fact about the state of Israel is that it is in an on-again-off-again state of war for something like the last 4000 years. I cannot fathom how is it possible for neither sides to win, especially the broadly speaking Arab side. Now with the nuclear arsenal and the very competent military they'll most likely survive at least till the first nuclear war, whenever that happens.

[ethotool]

Palestinians lived there for over 2000 years. Mainly Muslims and Christians but also a small percentage of Palestinian Jews (1%). It wasn’t until Zionisim and the movement that was first founded before WWI who conspired with the British to illegally take over Palestinian lands and expel over 750,000 refugees to neighboring countries.

[hpcjoe]

Source for the historical "facts" ? I'd love to read up on this.

The 750k refugees "expelled" (overwhelming historical documentary evidence exists of the vast majority leaving as a result of their leaders telling them to leave so they could kill the jews, and then let them come back) seems to omit the 850k (again historically well documented) jews expelled from arab lands post 1948.

Simple google searches will provide sources to the historical material I referenced.

[zen_1]

The "Arab leaders told the Palestinians to flee" line is an old and tired piece of zionist propaganda, mostly used to "justify" the double standard of barring Palestinians whose grandparents were expelled (by claiming they left of their own flee will) from returning to Palestine, while extending the right of return to foreign Jews whose last ancestors who lived in the region most likely did so under the Roman empire.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_the_1948_Palestinian...

I fail to see why anyone would need to encourage Palestinians to flee, when they were subject to ethnic cleansing such as at Deir Yassin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre

[hpcjoe]

Using Zionist as a pejorative is a clear indication of personal bias, but you do you.

Here's a good history of this conflict[1]. Worth a read. Labeling something you disagree with as propaganda, when there is so much documentary evidence supporting the thing you label thusly, is not a good argumentation strategy.

The arabs who were refugees were not expelled. They were not re-admitted. As the article notes, the failures of the arab leadership and their inability to come to terms and negotiate in good faith with the new political leadership has lead to 75+ years of their own diaspora. As the article notes, these were not innocent, nor victims.

Their children, held in these conditions for decades, should have been resettled where they landed. If they want even a chance of returning to Israel, they should bury their sword, create a genuine peace. Amazing things would happen then.

Though, given the chant is "river to sea ...", I don't expect this to occur in anyone's lifetime.

The arabs launched a war of aggression. They lost. They lost the subsequent wars they launched. Their people were displaced by those wars. They aren't victims of anything but terrible leadership.

Israel isn't going anywhere.

[1] http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/782

[zen_1]

I'm using zionist as an accurate description of the viewpoint the propaganda advances, no value judgement attached or implied, but you do you.

I know I won't change your mind (or your victim complex) over the internet, but for what it's worth I truly hope you find the truth (or Al Haq), and I'll leave it at that.

[hpcjoe]

May you get the enlightenment you deserve. Victim complex ... [1][2][3][4]

[1] https://www.justice.gov/crs/highlights/2020-hate-crimes-stat... [2] https://www.jns.org/fbi-report-reinforces-trend-that-america... [3] https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/antisemitism-jew... [4] https://www.jns.org/opinion/anti-semitism-the-numbers-dont-l...

[assbuttbuttass]

Not sure what you mean, "the state of Israel" was created in 1948, it's less than 80 years old

[fffobar]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Israel

[hpcjoe]

The modern state of Israel declared its independence in 1948 (and was immediately attacked by all of its neighbors, something which re-occurred multiple times). The ancient "state" of Israel has been in that land for north of 3000 years. As archaeological evidence continues to demonstrate.

[nyokodo]

> The ancient "state" of Israel has been in that land for north of 3000 years

With a ~2500 year gap between the fall of the Iron Age kingdoms of Israel and Judah and the 1948 modern state.

[hpcjoe]

And continuous presence of jews in that land for the entire time.

Your point?

[inawarminister]

yes, under the name of Palestinian Jews.

[umanwizard]

Nonsense. It was, not “has been”.

[tom-thistime]

What nation is not in an on-again-off-again state of war throughout its existence? I think that may be the rule, not the exception.

[fffobar]

Fair point. I guess the difference is the lack of strategic alliances throughout the history with anyone in the area. There were tactical alliances, even with Iran somewhat recently (Operation Opera), but nothing long lasting and "solid". In other words, the environment has always been pretty hostile.

[aa-jv]

The goal is not to win. The goal is to extract immense profit from the products of war.