[illuminerdy]

It really has nothing to do with race and everything to do with upbringing.

How come black people (specifically African-Americans) are the only people who seem to have these "racism" issues with police? What about other minorities? How many Indians do you see on TV fighting with police or getting shot? What about Hispanics or Asians? Hell, what about African immigrants? It seems quite strange to me that for all this talk of "systemic racism", none of the other minorities seem to have these issues.

It's almost as if the racist police don't have any issue with any minority OTHER than black people. Which makes me think that it really has nothing to do with race and everything to do with what some people are being taught.

There was a video a few weeks ago of young black children (probably around 5-8 years old) taunting, cursing and HITTING police in Minnesota.

https://nypost.com/2022/07/12/video-shows-child-hit-and-swea...

Now, you tell me, who taught that child to behave that way? And when that child grows up, what possible interaction could he have with police that DOESN'T end up with him being beaten, shot or killed?

Everyone wants to look at one side of the issue and ignore what is going on everyday in black families and communities that leads to these confrontations.

[wizofaus]

I get the feeling you don't really understand how racism works. It doesn't mean "I think everyone from a different ethnic background is somehow a worse person". It's often completely subconscious - your reaction to the observed behaviour of another person is nearly always coloured to some extent by the degree you consider them part of some category largely based on their superficial physical appearance (skin colour, hair colour/style, eye or nose shape etc.). Racism is when you let that colouring adversely affect the way you treat such individuals. It might even be assuming that because they look, say, Jewish you treat them with an expectation of being more intelligent than average.

[illuminerdy]

Well, I actually agree with you to some extent. I've been saying for a long time that everyone is prejudiced in some way. But that is never going to change. Human beings are, by nature, tribal. Even if we do it only on a subconscious level.

To that point, some of the most racist people I know are black people. Growing up as a black person myself in Brooklyn, and hearing it spoken often, I can tell you that there is no one that black people around here dislike more than Jews. It's an irrational kind of hatred based on the normal nonsense "they own all the banks, they own all the property", etc. If you messed up your credit and can't get a loan, it's the Jews fault. If someone gets evicted because they didn't pay their rent for 6 months, its' the Jews fault. That kind of thing. Racism and prejudice exists in all of us.

But you're right, I probably don't really understand how racism works. Because I have never actually experienced real racism. But, to be fair, neither has 99.9% of the people you see on your TV, social media or in the streets screaming about racism because a white person put their hair in dreadlocks or some other such nonsense. What was the most recent one, Drew Barrymore frolicking in the rain was somehow "erasing black people"?

Look, no one denies that there are actual racist people in the world. But the current state of discourse on this topic is a complete joke. REAL racism is largely a thing of the past. The problem is that what people are trying to classify as real racism these days are just wildly over exaggerated claims based on there being a racist boogeyman around every corner.

The truth is that the 'everything is racist' mantra, or the overexaggerated claims of racism, is actually funded and promoted by global elites and politicians who would very much like to create as much division as possible to keep us focused on non-issues like race instead of the fact that every time one of these "crises" occurs, their net income doubles. We are sadly being played as pawns.

[psyc]

> But the current state of discourse on this topic is a complete joke.

I want to make it clear that I agree with you 100% on that much. We're more polarized this year than last year, and we already thought it was very polarized then. I was born in the 70's, I'm an attentive and perceptive dude, and I've never seen anything close to this. People tell me it was worse right before I was born. Someone here gave me a book about the Weather Underground but I haven't finished it yet.

I think it's a blessing in a way that everyone lives in their phone. If the culture war were playing out predominately in meat space, way more people would be dying.

The kids call ideas from 20 years ago reactionary. Wait, hold up. Too many of the kids -know- and believe they -need- the word reactionary, what the fuck, and I'm not talking about vocab.

But I still maintain that the policed do not bear more responsibility than the police. The police are the professionals, and they're the ones empowered to kill people.

[psyc]

That's exactly what I said to my ever-so-slightly conscious girlfriend 25 years ago. I still feel embarrassed about it to this day. Even my long gone grandparents wondered so, socratically.

A bit more constructively: I suppose if everyone everywhere taught their kids the police are there to help, the way the Electric Company taught me, then that specific problem might be alleviated. Perhaps with unintended consequences. But I basically had to unlearn it, and for them it would require a comfort with a level of cognitive dissonance that I'm sure no individual can sustain, let alone a whole community. At least if you accept their history is separate. Like, my ancestors on my dad's side came here in the 1600's too, but they were on the top of the boat.

[_4ta5]

The national news does largely focus on African American people. I don't attempt to have an explanation for that, but it is noted and acknowledged.

Living in Denver for three years and having great HD over the air TV I'd watch the local news while cooking meals. The local news spent considerable time discussing the issues plaguing the refugees with their relationships with certain local law enforcement agencies, as well as the large Hispanic populations. I spent a lot of time hanging out with some refugees and it was interesting to hear their perspectives versus that of my barber who was Hispanic. Not once was my refugee ever asked to prove they were here legally, but my barber was nearly every time he had any kind of interaction with the police where they had some reason to fish for a reason to ask for identification.

Where I live in Central Texas now, it's largely about Hispanic interactions in the news or the continued coverage of the most recent large school shooting here. A huge complexity added to many Hispanic populations around the US is the ability to comfortably and freely voice their frustration without risk of deportation. A lot of abuse they suffer at the hand of law enforcement goes unnoticed on the national scene because they don't want to take to the streets about it and risk losing literally everything they own including the clothes they are wearing when they are arrested.

I'm only 1/4th Hispanic and while I haven't ever been pulled in Central Texas, in the the Dallas suburb of McKinney Texas, where I lived for about a decade I got pulled over all the time and every time they were baffled when #1 I don't know Spanish at all, beyond basic food names from eating at food trucks, #2 I have a slight southern accent because I grew up in Arkansas and sound like everyone else I was around, and #3 I wasn't some easy score for them.

Of the 30+ times I got pulled over on the east-side of McKinney, not once was I ever given a ticket or arrested me but it came pretty freakin' close and I can't imagine how much differently if I didn't immediately register as "he actually might be white".

I have done the following in McKinney, Allen, and/or Frisco Tx:

* Had to do the stupid human tricks on the side of the road before noon, because they claimed I was swerving and they smelled a hint of alcohol on my breath.

* Blown in a breathalyzer in the parking lot of an elementary school because the law enforcement officer camped out using the school as place to nail speeders said I was driving erratically and was staggering as I got out of my car. The erratic driving was specifically around having issues parking. Due to an injury I needed to be able to open my car door all the way open and when I realized I couldn't, I decided to back up and move over a bit more so I could open it all the way. That was the bad driving. The stagger was actually a limp if I put too much pressure on my left leg.

To add insult to injury, the final kick in the balls, etc. was when he started trying to imply I was there for questionable reasons when I was actually there to drop off lunch to my wife who had taught at the school for several years at that point and I routinely volunteered at the school which meant I had actually passed a more rigorous background check than he did to get his job.

* Been accused of having a fake id drivers license because for whatever reason their inability to find something about me to give me a ticket or arrest me on resorts to petty accusations to attempt to get a rise out of me so that they can escalate it even more till they can arrest me for making them scared, or worse they can use their terrible training and end up panicking and pulling their weapon and firing on the extreme end outcome of things.

Too many times to count I was told in parting words I could avoid these problems staying out of the east side of town because that is where all the problems are, or for the times I got pulled over close to home in the more affluent side of town that I should get a better car so I don't stand out and look questionable.

At the time I drove upwards of 100 miles round trip a day, my daily commute car was a highly efficient but very basic American cross over SUV that I picked up used but with less than 100 miles from a rental car agency that went bankrupt. That car also happened to be one of the most popular cars for whatever reason with Mexican people in many areas of Texas. Strike 1. Because I was in the car so much with the long slow commute, I had the windows tinted to protect the interior from UV damage and to protect the left side of my body from multiple hours a day of exposure to the sun due travel directions. Strike 2. Despite identifying as white, I love Tejano music and many other Hispanic musics for their complex guitar playing. Strike 2.5. Go to rich side of Texas suburb or go to area believed to be plagued with problems with immigrants and I had a pretty high chance of getting that third strike by just driving through with music barely audible beyond my car, and I don't listen to anything with a lot of bass or even loud volume. I'm talking side by side at a red light we'd both need our windows down and you'd still probably only be able to hear it as if it was elevator music in a real elevator.

Just because whatever circles of friends or media you consume doesn't focus on a problem does not mean it does not exist. Many of these strained relationships the communities have with law enforcement are not without complex histories and a refusal largely one sided to hold their people accountable to a degree so that trust is restored and the wall of division is broken down.

I have a very short list of people I would be willing to take a physical bullet for and one of them is a cop and they aren't someone related to me, I didn't know them all my life at the time when they'd gotten on that list, etc. It was their actions and humility that put them on that list.

When the police consider their community to be their community things turn out very differently than when the police have zero vested interest in their communities. When you have law enforcement officers who view themselves as warriors and take jobs in areas where crime, especially violent crime, occurs often because they want to live out some kind of deranged fantasy of being some kind of super hero you end up with vested interest in escalating any encounter with the public.

When the police remember that they serve the public, and not the other way around things are very different. The problem is there are many communities where they are policed by outsiders who look nothing like them, have zero history with the community, and honestly don't care what happens to any of the people in those communities.

This happens all over Texas, because the fact of the matter is being a cop fucking sucks. So all levels of policing recruit from all over the state and country trying to get people to move to those areas with crime.

It is boring as hell 99.9999% of the time, so to fill that time they start figuring out any and everything they can do to fill that time. They pick whatever activities make them sleep better at night, feel like they are earning their keep, ..

The problem is when there isn't much really going on you have some people who will start creating problems just to have something to do. It is what bully's do. The problem is the power balance is very different.

Because of this very difference in power I consider it imperative to ask a question when I make the decision to call 911 for anything where I'm asking for the police, especially if the person I'm calling about is a minority: If I were to go outside with my own weapon instead, would I think their current activity and it's likely progression to be something that is worth killing them over because the minute I go outside with my own weapon visible I am making the decision that I am prepared to use it and live with whatever outcomes happen.

I extend that logic to calling 911 for anything that warrants the police and I highly encourage anyone else to seriously consider using some variation of it when they call as well.