[osigurdson]

It feels like someone with great ideas started working on Gmail and quit before it was finished. Whatever they are doing to organize emails in a "smart" way is super confusing. I kind of get it but it just doesn't work. They should either finish it or just revert back to organizing emails by date of arrival.

[v3ss0n]

Paul Buchheit was core developer of gmail , who left gmail in 2006 - where its become shitty afterwards. He founded friendfeed and then got acquired by Facebook - and he left facebook to become angel investor / he is also main Partner of YC . he invested in many great startups like Twitch . On the opensource part , he build tornado web framework which is really important async framework for python ecosystem. Jupyter is built on top of tornado . He is active in HackerNews .

[singhrac]

Gmail quality dropped off a cliff all of a sudden. In particular, many many emails get sent to spam now, including emails sent by Google itself! Notifications about calendar invites regularly get sent to spam at inconvenient times.

I can't tell if this is just some sort of temporary spam filter tweaking error and oversight or an emergent property of a content-based filtering system that they won't revert.

[hn_throwaway_99]

Funny, I have the opposite problem, which could actually explain your problem.

I never used to get spam through GMail's filters, but in the last six-ish months I now get a couple every day. They're almost always the same format, too - frequently just a link, and often coming from an outlook.com email address.

So a possible hypothesis is that spammers got good at evading GMail's filter, so in tweaking it to catch these new spam techniques they could be causing more false positives.

[enos_feedler]

I have observed the same thing. I _never_ saw a single spam message in years. Suddenly I am seeing strikingly obvious ones at the same frequency you are. This must be on Google's plate to fix. Surely they see it.

[grey_earthling]

Would fixing it improve their ad business?

I'm still surprised by how often people (not necessarily you!) forget about misaligned purposes: your purpose for using Gmail is to have a good email service; Google's purpose for running Gmail is to make money, _not_ necessarily by providing a good email service.

When purposes misalign like that, you get users bewildered about why such a competent company would be “incapable” of providing a less crappy service.

Compare with Thunderbird: they make money to pay the bills but no-one's getting rich. Their only way of getting money is by building a good email client — by building features that companies will pay them to build; or by making a general-purpose email client good enough that users will donate.

(I know Thunderbird is not directly equivalent because it's just a client, not an email server, but the email client part is comparable.)

[hiptobecubic]

Ideas from the gmail ads team regularly get shot down by product because it would make gmail suck too much and piss everyone off.

I feel pretty bad for the ads team honestly. Like, their job is to basically just ruin products. Literally no one likes anything they do, ever. Their justification for everything is always just "You have to let us do this because $$$" and no one respects that, even though everyone knows that it's how the world works.

[vineyardmike]

Not just google specifically, but making a product better is good for business. Eg making gmail better means more gmail users who log in more often and see more ads.

Practically speaking, most big (tech) companies probably have split teams for UI/Product and Ads. So there’s most likely a team of product managers and engineers at G who’s entire job is to make Gmail better - regardless of the ad team in the next building over. So those people literally don’t care about making G money per se, as long as they’re not introducing bugs into the ad showing logic or making it worse (see first point).

[singhrac]

So interestingly I think "better spam detection" has a relatively straightforward interface (e.g. connect this app to Gmail's servers via SMTP, move emails between folders), but I assume you need almost Google-scale (or at least more than startup-scale) metadata and spam report collection to be able to do half as well.

One of the rare areas where barrier to innovation isn't market access but actually product quality. That being said I wouldn't pay a lot for this as a standalone service, though I would definitely pay for a standalone email client at this point.

[dotancohen]

  > Surely they see it.

Do you use the Report Spam button? Because that is how they see it.

[enos_feedler]

Every damn time. But until the issue is resolved, I will assume that button is just a NOP designed to make people feel good.

[ectopod]

I use Thunderbird. Does gmail take notice of me moving messages to the spam folder?

(Question not directed at you specifically.)

[dotancohen]

As a Thunderbird user too,I would love to know the answer as well.

[astrange]

I’ve been getting lots of extra spam and it particularly seems like anything with “invoice” in the text won’t get sent to spam.

[lrem]

Funny, I have neither. But think your analysis makes sense too and I just got lucky.

[cal85]

When?

[sosborn]

It always amuses me that we try to complicate things that should just be a simple list ordered by date.

[butterNaN]

I switched to basic HTML gmail the moment it tried to predict what I wanted to type (incorrectly, I should add).

I sometimes accidentally open the 'modern' view and it feels so bloated. Everything is so against intuition, it feels like someone's fresh-out-of-marketing-school design.

[bambax]

> just revert back to organizing emails by date of arrival

You can choose to do that: Settings / General / Conversation view off

It's so much better to simply have emails in the order they arrive instead of hunting them down in "conversations".

[ghaff]

I understand that emails can get buried but threaded views are so much better for me (especially at work) than my inbox being buried by conversations/threads that I have zero interest in. My alternative would probably be to more aggressively filter but that would effectively mean I never even saw lots of things I might actually care about.

[butterNaN]

I switched to basic HTML gmail the moment it tried to predict what I wanted to type (often incorrectly, which worsened my experience)

I sometimes accidentally open the 'modern' view and it feels so bloated. Everything is so against intuition, it feels like someone's fresh-out-of-marketing-school design.

[galaxyLogic]

I was trying to find sent mail and only way I found it was by searching mail where I was the sender.

Smart but not obvious.