[Yizahi]

Oil, filters and work on them is pricy at the official dealers (if you care about warranty). Also more failure points - turbines, injectors, gas pump, exhaust, gearbox, oiling system in general. Just a single gearbox or turbine failure can cost thousands. EVs are really cheaper in general, however you compare.

[lotsofpulp]

Where does getting an oil filter changed by a non dealer void the warranty?

Oil/air filters and brakes are $50 and $500 at most. Everything else is pretty reliable for a couple hundred thousand miles assuming a decent brand car like Toyota or Honda.

At US gas prices, I have yet to see an EV be shown to be a better value than a car/minivan/SUV/pickup truck, especially if driving 10k miles or less per year. The upfront cost on EVs is huge, and many alternatives such as minivans do not even exist yet.

[Yizahi]

I need to do yearly maintenance at the dealer (or if I exceed some fixed mileage before that), they do the oil change in the course of that. If I would skip yearly maintenance the warranty is voided.

PS: that's for Mazda car.

[sokoloff]

That’s definitely not the case in the US (see Magnuson-Moss 1975) and many other countries have similar laws.

[ZeroGravitas]

https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/onh00/bar8.htm

10K miles or less is a bit of an outlier.

[lotsofpulp]

I would not be able to discern 10k miles or less for a car is an outlier from those data points, it does not say anything about the underlying distribution.

Not to mention the whole female column is pretty much 10k and below, as well as men over 65.

This is a little bit better breakdown, but I could find miles driven by decile. I would assume it greatly differs by location and is greatly skewer by people who drive a lot.

https://www.thezebra.com/resources/driving/average-miles-dri...

Either way, the purpose of the miles driven per year in cost calculations is because after a certain amount of miles, the up front higher cost of electric is offset by lower per mile costs of driving electric. Assuming fuel costs stay the same, then people who drive less have less incentive to go electric.

[ZeroGravitas]

The up front higher cost is disappearing as they ramp up production and is predicted to cross over within a few years. The fuel costs and carbon intensity of the running costs are also predicted to diverge in EVs favor.

Presumably part of this is greater efficiency, which would impact the C02 emissions too.

So any small savings are that possibly exist today in theory are likely wiped out by depreciation on the vehicle when you go to sell it to someone else, who likely drives an average amount of miles and so wants to buy a cheap to run vehicle

TCO calculations can deal with most of this, the one I linked to does highway and city mileage seperately and lets you choose a state for electricity and gas prices. There's no need for vague blanket rules.

Why don't you demonstrate a realistic scenario to substantiate your claim that:

> At US gas prices, I have yet to see an EV be shown to be a better value than a car/minivan/SUV/pickup truck, especially if driving 10k miles or less per year.

But, none of that really matters because the average car is much better off as an EV, and this is just fiddling around the edges to distract from that basic truth.

[lotsofpulp]

> The up front higher cost is disappearing as they ramp up production and is predicted to cross over within a few years.

Maybe. I am not disputing it will not. I do not know about “a few years”. I would still place my TCO bets on gas until I have some proof of longevity from electric vehicles, assuming I do not drive 20k miles per year.

> So any small savings are that possibly exist today in theory are likely wiped out by depreciation on the vehicle when you go to sell it to someone else

This is only a factor if you plan on selling it before the end of your life, or the end of the vehicle’s life.

> Why don't you demonstrate a realistic scenario to substantiate your claim that:

The fact that if I were to buy a car today in the US, there is no option for an electric Sienna or Odyssey minivan or equivalent. No electric car gives that kind of passenger space or cargo room and versatility for a family.

[viraptor]

It's not that any work voids the warranty, but for example I got extra 2 years warranty by servicing at the official dealer rather than somewhere else.