[makz]

Before answering that question I'd ask: why would we want that?

My answer is no, it didn't work on the desktop, it won't work on the smartphone, for more or less the same reasons.

As much as I like Linux and FOSS, Linux is just a bad OS for the average consumer.

For hackers, makers, DYI enthusiasts, etc. Linux is wonderful, however, what's the market size for a Linux smart phone for this people? I bet it's tiny.

[aquaduck]

Didn't work on the desktop? I've been running Linux exclusively on my desktops for 15 years. Desktop Linux is better today than it's ever been.

Why does every OS need to be suitable for average consumers? Librem and Pine64 are doing great work in the mobile Linux space on the hardware side, and projects like PostmarketOS are doing great work on the software side. These are niche products for motivated enthusiasts, as they should be. They'll never grow to billions of users, nor should they. The tech industry's "grow massive or the product is worthless" mindset is pathological, in my opinion.

[umanwizard]

I think you’re saying basically the same thing as the person you responded to.

[aquaduck]

Same underlying facts, different interpretation of the facts.

[seba_dos1]

Not only I've been successfully running it on my desktops for about that long, but I also have been running it on my phones for not much shorter. It works.

[iE4mHBzmoYezwbx]

> Desktop Linux is better today than it's ever been.

I honestly have to strongly disagree with that. Desktop Linux is more complex, more fragile, and more choice-less than 10-15 years ago. It might have a bit better hardware compatibility... but even back then it would run on just about anything.

> Librem and Pine64 are doing great work in the mobile Linux space on the hardware side

But can you actually use them as a phone? Can you use all (or even any) of the apps that people want to use?

> They'll never grow to billions of users, nor should they. The tech industry's "grow massive or the product is worthless" mindset is pathological, in my opinion.

Without that, they'll also never get the things that people want their phones to do.

[aquaduck]

> Desktop Linux is more complex, more fragile, and more choice-less than 10-15 years ago.

More complex, sure. Bare ALSA was simpler than Pulse/PipeWire. But the benefit of the additional complexity is that nowadays, sound just works. PipeWire gives us flexible audio routing pipelines like Jack, but for all audio applications rather than just pro audio! And as a counter-example, the X11 to Wayland transition considerably reduces the complexity of the display stack.

I'm not sure what you're getting at with "more fragile", but I definitely disagree with more choice-less. Sure, I wouldn't want to run modern Gnome on a full-size desktop/laptop (we have MATE, Xfce, and countless minimal WMs/compositors for that). But modern Gnome is great on tablets. Non-systemd and non-glibc distros are out there if you're into that sort of thing. Flatpak, etc are available if you're into that - if not, nobody's forcing you to use them.

> But can you actually use them as a phone?

Yes, with effort and some sacrifices. The velocity is in the right direction - the situation is much better than it was a year or two ago.

> Without that, they'll also never get the things that people want their phones to do.

I agree that there needs to be a sufficiently large community that things get developed. But this doesn't mean we need billions (or even millions) of users.

[linmob]

Some apps exist: https://linuxphoneapps.org (Contributions welcome!)

They aren't all perfect, but TBH, I would get by. I only miss Threema to switch fully at this point (which I've migrated many of my contacts too, so that's on me), but as work on a Matrix-bridge is ongoing there's a lot of hope. (I could also just use Waydroid + the Android app to fill this gap, but… that kills the battery (at least for the PinePhone).

[seba_dos1]

FWIW battery hungriness of Waydroid should be perfectly fixable. I had a quick look and it doesn't really seem to care about not doing useless work when there's nothing to do and happily wakes up multiple times per second all the time the container is running. A lot of low hanging fruits there.

[sgc]

Why is it 'just bad'? I have installed Linux (either Debian or Ubuntu) for several non-tech-savvy family members, and they have used them for years without incident. I once talked to my mom about Linux and she mentioned that her Windows worked great for everything, she would never change. I told her to look at the splash screen when she booted up ;)! She had been on Linux for a good 10 years without noticing.

[Bilal_io]

Maybe we can do it backwards this time, take the Chrome approach with Linux, build a UI launcher for mobile that is as simple as possible and once it's complex and has a healthy touch-friendly apps translate it to desktop.

Look at Steam Deck and what they've done. They could use the same approach to launch a Phone OS.

[type0]

My older relatives tend to disagree with you, Ubuntu runs better than Windows and is easier to use (especially on dated hardware). Admittedly if proprietary programs were a requirement it wouldn't be possible, but that isn't a fault of Linux.

[olau]

That's not really true. The main problem with Linux on the desktop is that it is not preinstalled.

There are commercial vendors like Canonical where you can get support, if you want to.

Now, 20 years ago we could have argued about application support, etc., but these days average consumers just fire up a web browser.

[pjmlp]

Ah, that is why Linux Desktop apps are mostly Electron nowadays.

[nivenkos]

To ensure a fair market, look at Spotify's complaints for example - https://timetoplayfair.com/

Right now Apple can pre-load Apple TV and Apple Music on all their devices, put it on the top of their store and search results, make all deep links go to their services and charge all other services a 30% fee even for in-app subscriptions making it a hassle for users to sign up to competitors.

Spotify, Netflix, Valve, etc. should all see the importance of having a fully open platform especially now that phones are far more common than laptops or desktops. And governments too given they want us to have digital ID, digital banking and digital inbox services for filing taxes, COVID passes, etc.

[bhedgeoser]

Popos works really well on the desktop. All of the games that I play run perfectly on linux, albeit with slightly higher resource usage. Couple that with a windows 10 vm and there is no reason for me to boot into my windows installation ever again.