[pydry]

Nobody forced NATO to expand to Ukraine either. Or to invade Libya. Or to invade Iraq/Afghanistan.

Whataboutism as a rationale for war escalation with a nuclear power is insane.

To consider reining in NATO expansion war to be equivalent to war crime apologetics is beyond absurd.

If we get to winter and the Russian economy fares better than ours (and at first glance it looks like it will) then a lot of people should be eating a lot of humble pie.

Alas I suspect theyll just call for escalation.

[sofixa]

> Nobody forced NATO to expand to Ukraine either

Cut the Russian propaganda, NATO didn't expand to Ukraine. Ukraine, a sovereign country, wanted to join NATO, as is their every right. Denying Ukraine that right and excusing Russia's war crimes is pretty bad.

[pydry]

I'm not excusing Russian anything and Im not repeating any propaganda.

I'm explaining that war, gas crisis and 18% inflation was a predictable and deliberately chosen path that wasnt hard to avoid if we'd wanted to - simply by withdrawing an invitation.

You didnt want to avoid this scenario and consider withdrawing this invitation and "denying ukraine that right". I get that.

[CorrectHorseBat]

> deliberately chosen path that wasnt hard to avoid if we'd wanted to - simply by withdrawing an invitation.

Yes, imagine what would have happened to Chechnya or Georgia if we had let them into NATO. No, that would have been an invitation to attack Ukraine, we should have let them in.

[pydry]

Well, we put Georgia on a NATO membership action plan after years of meddling in their politics and that triggered the invasion in 2008.

Ukraine isnt the first time this happened. It's just this time stirring up ethnic conflict along Russia's border is causing us to really suffer.

[CorrectHorseBat]

And what did we do to Chechnya? Have you considered you've got your causality backwards? These countries want to join NATO because they are sick of Russian meddling. No country is being forced into NATO.