[orang2tang]

But just as sin entered the world through one man, it was defeated through one man as well, Jesus Christ. There is no condemnation for anyone who believes in Jesus. So being saved from hell is quite simple, which is why it's called "the good news" or the gospel. And that's God's plan for humanity, and he's begging you to simply seek this man named Jesus.

God's wisdom is made that much more powerful in what some might call foolishness, just as he prescribed circumcision to the Jews. Abraham was required to put off his pride and simply believe God, that circumcision was a commandment from God for the Jews, and this faith in God is what saves. You don't think Abraham received a lot of judgement for prescribing circumcision?

Just as Christians receive judgement for prescribing the new circumcision, which is the circumcision of the heart to believe in Jesus Christ. It requires people to put off their pride, realize their very nature offends God (because he is perfect so anything less than perfect is an offense to him) and repent of their unbelief in the only begotten son of God, who knew our same struggles here on Earth and was killed without reason so that we could live. This belief covers our heads from wrath, because now when God looks at us he sees Christ.

So it's called the good news because it is. We can defeat death and enter into an unimaginable state of perfection. What I find with people who don't believe is that they're blinded by what they think Christianity is. So for you I would say you're blinded by the problem of hell. But if God tells us it is real, that is true and you have no say in the matter. Your belief or unbelief doesn't change the truth of the word of God. God is above politics, above human wisdom, and also above the people that claim his name.

I should note that I used to have the same opinion as you! No judgement!

[Cthulhu_]

Christianity falls apart if there is no fear or belief in repercussions after death.

Why not just be a decent person without being threatened? It's how the majority of people in the world do things.

[orang2tang]

You misunderstand Christianity in the way most people do.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." - Ephesians 2:9

"know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified." - Galatians 2:16

So Christianity is simply placing your faith in Jesus Christ. If you believe that God forgave your sins at the behest of Christ, and that you will enter an eternal kingdom also as a son of God, wouldn't you eventually be more liable to forgive and love others?

So being good is a side-effect, not the point, of Christianity. God will not let me enter heaven because of how good I am, and if that was the measure none of us would make it. The point of Christianity is to know God and have faith that through Christ's death on the cross, burial, and resurrection, he can impart the mercy of God onto you. That he quite literally died for every sin everyone had ever committed.

“For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.” - 2 Corinthians 5:21

[boxed]

> If you believe that God forgave your sins at the behest of Christ, and that you will enter an eternal kingdom also as a son of God, wouldn't you eventually be more liable to forgive and love others?

No. History has been the judge and has left Christianity wanting. You want a faith that truly causes love and care for others? Jainism. "By their fruits you shall know them" Jesus said didn't he? Well the fruits of Christianity are rotten.

[boxed]

There is no threat, unless you do exactly what I say.

Yea, that's the threat.

> I should note that I used to have the same opinion as you! No judgement!

Common thing to hear. I have never believed anyone has ever gone from a strong atheist who reads the bible and can so obviously see the cruelty and madness, and then suddenly turn around and become a christian apologist? It's just as believable as the bible in the first place.

[orang2tang]

>There is no threat, unless you do exactly what I say.

You do your taxes every year so you can avoid jail time. But you won't simply call out to Jesus Christ with a true heart and ask for salvation?

Think about it! That's all it takes!

[boxed]

I pay my taxes because I'm not an absolute monster, not because I fear jail. You are again confused.

[Cthulhu_]

Our Lord and Saviour Donald Trump will save us from the evil tax man though! We just have to believe He won the 2020 election and we will be saved!

(actually this is a thing, some republicans like Ted Cruz (he ate my son) are going on about how the IRS should be abolished: https://twitter.com/SenTedCruz/status/1561360677255643136)

[boxed]

Btw, if you are honestly trying to sell christianity, don't say stuff like "realize their very nature offends God (because he is perfect so anything less than perfect is an offense to him)" or "the circumcision of the heart" (lol!).

> So for you I would say you're blinded by the problem of hell.

I'm "blinded" by the threat of torture for the majority of humans? I don't think you can be "blinded" by such an atrocity that makes Hitler look like a total wimp. You are LITERALLY claiming that ALL jews that were killed by Hitler will be reincarnated by God and then tortured. And of course all other Jews, past and present. And all atheists, muslims, sheiks, hindus.

And somehow you can't see the problem...

[orang2tang]

I'll only respond to your first part since solving the problem of hell differs from person to person.

>don't say stuff like "the circumcision of the heart" (lol!).

This is not a term I made, it's biblical. And as my post says I'm aware the entire gospel is foolish to unbelievers, and the Bible and God is aware of that. That's the basic hurdle of accepting the gospel.

"But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men."

1 Corinthians 23-25

"But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;"

1 Corinthians 27

"At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children."

Matthew 11:25

[boxed]

Admitting your stance is lunacy isn't a defense. You should instead ponder why you believe absurdities.

"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire (ish). This is the most important quote about how to live in the world. It explains Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot, but also the mass rape done by the Catholic Church, 9/11, the current climate change crisis, and on and on. It's the Grand Unified Theory of atrocities.

[orang2tang]

if (the_world_is_evil && the_world_hates_the_word_of_god && the_world_hated_jesus_enough_to_kill_him_despite_him_doing_nothing_wrong ){

console.log("maybe it's something you should look into");

}

So if you care so much about evil you should ask yourself, who was the only person to walk the Earth who had no evil. That would be Jesus. And what did Jesus say? He said he was God, and quoted the old testament that correctly spoke of his coming.

Shouldn't you look into it?

[boxed]

Being the literally biggest religious movement of the world and then at the same time saying the world hates the word of god is silly. You are the majority. If you include Islam, you are the VAST majority.

> who was the only person to walk the Earth who had no evil. That would be Jesus.

Of course it wasn't. I've read the bible. I remember "pearl before swines". That was evil.

> He said he was God

He didn't though. "You said that" is what he said. He was very clear. You are now lying about what the bible says. As is common among christians sadly.

[8note]

There's no lack of people to walk the earth who have no evil though. You have to contrive good people to be evil to make that the case.