[ajross]

NHS and Medicare have historically had both very efficient allocation of resources and excellent health outcomes. This NHS argument is about new data that to me seems impossible to deconflate with a global pandemic.

Basically, libertarians are just wrong on this. Government-run health care works great and we have many decades of evidence showing that.

[pclmulqdq]

This is the first time I have ever heard of Medicare being held up as efficient. Medicare is 13% of the US government budget. More federal money goes to Medicare than to the Department of Defense. In contrast, the care that people get from Medicare is substantially worse than what you get from private insurance in the US.

[ajross]

> Medicare is 13% of the US government budget. More federal money goes to Medicare than to the Department of Defense.

These are not measures of efficiency. Medicare outlays are about 30-40% of private insurance for the same demographics.

> the care that people get from Medicare is substantially worse than what you get from private insurance

And this is, in fact, not true at all. US citizens on medicare beat their cohorts not only vs. other nations but vs. private insurance in the US too. Don't make the mistake of comparing your corporate insurance for a workforce with a median age of 30 with what retirees in the private market have available.

[pclmulqdq]

There is no doubt that Medicare has the bargaining power to drive down hospital costs compared to private insurance: Medicare gets 10c/$1 on the chargemaster at hospitals (and hospitals set prices so that Medicare's payment rate has a small profit), while private insurance tends to be able to negotiate 15-20c/$1. Individuals who are good negotiators can reportedly end up paying only 20-30c/$1, so if you have a big hospital bill, it can pay to call them up and negotiate.

Retirees on the private market get completely shafted, though: almost everybody in their age group uses medicare, so the insurance will need very high premiums to cover their risks. From what I have heard, people who are on employer plans at that age have better health outcomes than retirees, regardless of where the retiree gets their healthcare.

[amusedcyclist]

Libertarians are generally more interested in ideology than policy research

[creato]

> In contrast, the care that people get from Medicare is substantially worse than what you get from private insurance in the US.

I don’t think they are comparable. Medicare exists because private insurers refuse to cover old people at a reasonable price. It’s a good scam the private insurers have going: take peoples money when they are generally healthy and productive, drop them like a sack of shit onto the government’s lap when they aren’t.

[pclmulqdq]

The price of elder care in the US is not due to insurance companies, but due to the amount of attention someone demands before them die in a US hospital. Many socialized healthcare systems do not allow doctors to waste nearly as many resources this way.

That is why the life expectancy of the average obese, unhealthy American is about the same as the life expectancy of the average (much healthier) Japanese or European person. Americans are allowed to eat their way to an early grave and then have medical resources thrown at them to desperately keep them alive a few days longer.

EDIT: Also, I should point out that doctors generally demand a lot less end-of-life care than members of the general US population. They seem to understand that it is merely prolonging the inevitable rather than helping.