[abrouwers]

Reading the HN comments, I didn't get the same "defending alcohol" feel you did. I think many (most?) people understand there is some risk. But, there's also risk in driving a car, eating red meat, or not sleeping enough - some just choose that the benefits they receive outweigh the risks. Life's short, eh?

[feet]

Exactly life is short so why are people knowingly making it shorter?

I think you don't see them as defending alcohol because your comment is doing the exact same thing.

[volkl48]

Many people feel the small (possible) reduction in average lifespan is worth the enjoyment or quality of life they get from those things.

Optimizing your life strictly around maximizing potential lifespan is certainly an option, but one that many people would feel is an unworthy tradeoff with what they'd have to give up.

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The difference with smoking vs the other things mentioned frequently in this thread (beyond likelihood of addiction), is that the reductions in lifespan with smoking are huge.

The average smoker loses at least a decade of their expected lifespan from what I can see.

Alcohol's effect on expected lifespan is more disputed, but even those claiming it's a negative in all quantities, generally make far smaller claims as to the degree of reduction for moderate/average use than are the case for smoking.

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Additionally, the average smoker doesn't appear to even be particularly fond of their activity. I do not meet many middle aged smokers that talk in any sort of particularly positive terms about their smoking or that seem to have positive memories associated with it.

[feet]

Alcohol's effect on life span is highly disputed because the industry funds research to refute the idea. Just like the tobacco industry did.

[abrouwers]

I mean, no offense, but your tone comes off as an "I told you so" anti-alcohol comment, so I'd be careful criticizing others for their decisions. As other comments have mentioned, there are often plenty of enjoyable, social side effects that come from drinking alcohol with others in a common setting. Obviously alcohol isn't required (though, obviously people enjoy it - the taste, the side effect, whatever), but that's the way a fairly huge industry is setup in many countries.

Also, to clarify, drinking alcohol does NOT equate to making one's life shorter - that's not at all what the article discusses. Moderate drinking may have no effect, or even a positive effect, on life span.

[feet]

Mu-opioid agonists have positive prosocial effects as do other GABAergics such as kava and alprazolam.

How about the prosocial effects of low doses of ketamine or other NMDA antagonists such as PCP and dextromethorphan?

Perhaps I'm anti alcohol because you can get the exact same effect from compounds with better risk profiles. Alcohol is a very old drug with a lot of risks compared to the benefit. It hammers so many different receptors, the off target effects are nuts and that's not even mentioning the risk from the toxic metabolite acetaldehyde.

There's no reason to use ethanol with so many better options for the same behavioral modifications.

[abrouwers]

Just speaking personally, but it's the social aspect. It's simply fun (subjectively, of course) to head to a brewery with some coworkers, after work, hang out in a cool environment, and sip beverages that taste good. If I lived in a bubble to maximize life expectancy, I expect I'd look back with some regrets.

[feet]

There are other hobbies and gathering places that don't revolve around consuming carcinogens such as restaurants, gyms, sports leagues, libraries, ice cream shops, opium dens (although I'm not sure how many exist nowadays) and likely more that I can't think of. Not to mention, there are many beverages that don't contain alcohol.

[abrouwers]

"That was a fun day of work, let's hit the library" is not the same as "Let's go have a beer," for many people, as you're probably aware :-) To each their own, though. Your argument is just that people should stop doing what they enjoy - again, I think most understand a potential risk, they've just decided it's worth it.

[Ekaros]

If life is short, why not make the best out of it. Specially when the last years might not be most quality.

[feet]

So drinking alcohol is making the most out of life? That feels a bit sad to be honest. There is way more to life than drinking