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by reitanuki 1400 days ago
I am a big fan, but I also find this situation and the response to be a bit disappointing.

I highly respect Martijn and the effort he has poured into pmOS and Pine64 and surrounding projects. Without wanting to make other important people feel left out, I consider him an absolute legend and the fact that he has felt compelled to write this blog post (and, unfortunately, to leave) is massively concerning.

I think it's very possible that there has been no malice here and it's all just an accident of one thing leading to another, but something has gone awry here and I think it would be nice to hear what Pine intend to do to put it right, or to know that there is such a plan at all.

> As for the reason why Pinebook Pro doesn’t ship with a bootloader on SPI – it isn’t caused by favoritism for a particular group of developers or disregard for good ideas, but rather something more trivial. Namerly, a functional Tow-Boot build for the Pinebook Pro wasn’t available at the time of manufacture and shipping.

One particular point I want to make: I'm willing to believe Pine about the above, but it's too late to hear about this after crucial people have been miffed. This seems to indicate that communication with the various projects has not been good. This seems like a crucial thing to improve on to prevent this recurring.

I don't have enough knowledge of the situation and am incapable of making any judgements as to what is really going on, but I sincerely hope that Pine will consider this situation carefully and whether something can be done to put things right again.

I really wish to see Pine and their hardware do well and flourish. That was never going to be easy, but it will be even less easy with the loss of people like Martijn.

2 comments

There has been zero communication towards Tow-Boot developers during this process, nothing about the issues on the new batch. The moment Tow-Boot learned about this is when people received the new Pinebook Pro and it came with a different bootloader.

This is a massive communication issue.

Disclaimer: I was in the Pine64 IRC channels at the time, so have some limited visibility, but not all visibility.

Pine64 was looking for somebody to commit to maintain PineBook Pro support in Tow-Boot (a relatively new project)

I don't know if the point-of-contact was made aware that PineBook Pro was not going to be shipped with Tow-Boot.

I found logs. For context, tl_lim is the founder of Pine64.

2022-06-01, the Pine64 dev IRC chat:

> [T] <tl_lim> I pause on move forward due to no one commit to maintain. If MayueIC interest to maintain, lets move forward and include Tow-Boot into the PBP factory build. @MayeulIC, you can send an email to info@pine64.org, we will ship a free Pinebook Pro to you so that you can maintain the Tow-Boot.

> [T] <tl_lim> On the integration, just follow the recent PinePhone Pro way that flash OS build to eMMC then flash Tow-Boot to SPI Flash.

> [T] <tl_lim> Frankly speaking, I am happy on developer commit maintaining Tow-Boot on Pinebook Pro. Thanks and a big shout out to @MayeulIC.

2022-06-02, in the Tow-Boot chat, which was discussing tl_lim's above comment:

> spikerguy: Tllim asked on. 25th April about pbp tow boot support i replied it just work fine as it should. But just because i am the one to work on factory images plus i am the manjaro arm pkg maintainer maybe he didn't wanted to hear from me instead the community that was assuring him about tow boot and none replied

> The current batch factory image is already submitted. So hopefully we can keep things ready for the next batch

I don't see all comms, but overall I see Tow-Boot on SPI at factory-time as nice-to-have but not essential (users can easily do this, distros don't need to require it, and the next batch can improve it if needded), Pine64 has showed willingness to use Tow-Boot. Tow-Boot has 1 developer, and I'm not sure if they were willing to commit to support this. I understand if they weren't.

This issue is blown out of proportion.

Maybe a good step would be for Pine64 to fund Tow-Boot's support of Pinebook Pro.

This is just after I left. And after me saying (in not the public channel) that samuel is maintaining Tow-Boot, other developers are helping (like me) but that didn't matter.