[actionfromafar]

Here I thought the Ukraine was the main victim and Russia the perpetrator.

[sharikous]

Look into it. It's definitely not a black and white aggression war. It definitely has elements of a proxy war that conveniently weakens both Russia and Europe

[_kbh_]

> Look into it. It's definitely not a black and white aggression war. It definitely has elements of a proxy war that conveniently weakens both Russia and Europe

In what way is it not a black and white war of aggression?.

[actionfromafar]

So basically, Russia is the abusive ex-husband who says:

"Look what your new friends made me do to you!"

"Now lie still while I rape you"

[trasz]

It is a very black and white aggression war. It’s just that the fighting parties also have other interests.

[88840-8855]

Ukraine is just collateral damage in this proxy war. Not more.

[SassyThrowaway]

It's a "collateral" damage to lives of 40+ million people, which I suspect many people find a tad too high to treat it just as a statistic.

[trasz]

The actual collateral damage will be the Russians. Ukraine will get better, meanwhile Russia is unlikely to survive in its current shape - and when Moscow gets cut off from from easy money from parasitizing on its colonies, it will crash terribly - much worse than in 1990, because back then Russia still had allies; now even China doesn’t want to cooperate; it complies with sanctions and is dropping strategic investments.

In a way, this is a proxy war - against China, at Russia. Western response means Russia has no future with the West and has to pivot to China. This would give China advantage, so I think it’s unlikely for US to preserve Russia in a shape that could be useful to China as an ally.

[thehappypm]

War between who, Russia and…?