[Sohcahtoa82]

It doesn't have to be strong-arming, but what about propaganda?

High schoolers are still being told "If you don't want to make minimum wage for your whole life, you need a college degree!", yet a high schooler certainly can't pay the $15K+ per year to get a degree, so they take out student loans.

And then, the same people who hounded them to get a degree then hound them when they beg for student loan forgiveness, telling them they shouldn't have taken out a loan they wouldn't be able to afford to pay back.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[dionidium]

> "If you don't want to make minimum wage for your whole life, you need a college degree!"

I started college in 1999. The day my freshmen year started, jokes about English majors asking if you want fries with that were already 60 years old.

This argument is revisionist bunk, in other words. Everybody knows there are some degrees that are more valuable than others, that some degrees lead to higher pay and that some don't. Everybody knows this. They know it today and they knew it in 1999 and they knew it in 1979 and I categorically reject this weird, revisionist insistence that nobody could possibly have known it or that 18-year-olds are hapless dopes without any agency or even the most basic understanding of how the world works.

[glorified-html]

How many teenagers really understand the practical implications of what they're signing up for?

No one is saying teenagers lack agency, but there is definitely a problem when an outsized number are making decisions that are detrimental to their long-term future

[dionidium]

We're in kind of a weird transitionary period with respect to our societal-level view of teenagers. Very often the same exact people are arguing that student loans are illegitimate, on the grounds that teenagers are not sophisticated enough to sign contracts, but on the other hand that the voting and/or drinking ages should be lowered, because teenagers are clearly capable of handling those responsibilities.

I'm kind of happy to go either way on this, but I think we're probably going to have to pick one. If an 18-year-old can't sign a contract, then surely they shouldn't be allowed the vote.

[robcohen]

Furthermore, gun control is back in the spotlight after Uvalde. I just attended the TX Democratic convention and at least three speakers argued to raise the age for purchasing firearms to 21. I don’t actually have a problem with that, but we’ve gotta be consistent. There’s no way it’s justifiable to remove a constitutional right from an adult without due process.

[Sohcahtoa82]

> I just attended the TX Democratic convention and at least three speakers argued to raise the age for purchasing firearms to 21.

This will do absolutely nothing to prevent school shootings, and will have such a negligible effect on gun violence in general that I feel the Democrats are creating animosity across the aisle for no gain at all.

I won't pretend to know the solution to gun violence, but this certainly ain't it.

[jdougan]

I think picking just one would be a bad plan. Looking back, a more principled phasing in of adult privileges and responsibilities would have been helpful. The current arrangements (at least in Canada and the US) appear pretty haphazard to me.

[bobkazamakis]

>I started college in 1999.

>Everybody knows there are some degrees that are more valuable than others

This has only been made more extreme, but you've been checked out for at least 20 years apparently.