[rich_sasha]

I'm writing this from my Ubuntu desktop (LTE). Just a few months ago some update broke everything (graphics). Then somehow I fixed it, but it broke again on restart. It took best part of a week for me to fix.

You might say it wasn't the best distribution for reliability, or that graphics with NVidia are always an issue etc. but the fact remains that, for me, for an OS to "just work out of the box", MacOS is much better.

[I'm also not a Linux n00b, been using it for over a decade, though not an expert for sure]

[prmoustache]

So basically you played with fire(nvidia) and got burned.

There is one way to run nvidia stuff on Linux and have a decent experience: run a distro that actually support and has partnership with nvidia, which mean a distro like Redhat Enterprise Linux. It has long term support too.

It is the same with Apple or windows if you start using shitty drivers from a shady brand you will run into issues at some point.

[rich_sasha]

Well, that's one way to look at it: you need to carefully pick your distro, make sure it's compatible with your hardware, and so on.

My way is rather: I don't want to even pollute my brain cache with that. I want a Computer with an Operating System that Just Work. Because for me tinkering with the setup of my desktop is not fun, the fun bit is what I do with a properly working computer. I'll pay a premium to Apple for that (though, mind you, MBP is competitively priced with similarly-performant laptops), and I'd pay that same premium to a laptop+Linux provider.

Except... my confidence in the latter working well is lower. Because apart from fixing broken graphics drivers, I've also had to, in my days, debug:

- package managers that somehow got themselves into a bad state

- fight with linkers when trying to build fairly benign stuff on my desktop

- don't even mention printing

and many other things I don't even remember anymore.

[prmoustache]

>- don't even mention printing

Sounds strange because both Linux and MacOS share the same Cups software for printing. AFAIK Cups main developpers are employed by Apple.

I haven't run into any hiccups these last 15 years. Everytime I was in the market for a printer I just verified it was supported well on openprinting.org. On my current printer I just needed to install one rpm.

Compare that to all the crappy software that was installed on my gf windows 10 laptop, involving a reboot, annoying popups telling you about ink level on every print and an app loading up at startup to stay in systray.

I like to mention that I used for 18 years a scanner on linux and bsd perfectly while it was out of support in Mac and windows since 2001. It wasn't even a device that would have used very old connectors impossible to find on modern hardware. It was using USB! In that particular case I don't think that Mac really accounts for what you'd call a "Just Work" experience.

[jeroenhd]

I've had more luck printing from Linux than any other operating system, funnily enough. It just seems to work, no 3GB of driver software or manual browsing for INF files required. The UI is a bit clunky when you want to configure advanced settings but it's no worse than your average HP driver in my opinion.

My experiments with macOS actually had the same problems you list, though I haven't tried printing more than once. MacOS comes with ancient Unix tools and you end up downloading half a Linux install over Brew when you try to compile stuff, and now you have added an external package manager you need to deal with to as system that doesn't really support one.

Mg experience with package managers is that if you ignore the warnings (adding --force to overrule errors, adding external repositories that replace system libraries or aren't maintained, mess with config files to override same defaults, mix package managers (apt+global pip = hell)) you won't see them break themselves. I've broken Windows installs by messing with my system in similar ways, though there never seems to be a solution when this happens other than a reinstall. Trouble mostly comes from outdated, misguided guides found on Google that'll ignore any best practices for your opersting system and set things up Their Way, turning your install into a ticking time bomb when the writers have long had to reinstall their operating system without ever updating their guides.

All operating systems I've tried are bad in their own way. Windows worked great until 8 came out. MacOS works well enough if you don't mind Apple's control/decisions/limitations and accept the risk of buying a faulty device that the company will deny all the way up to class lawsuit settlements. Linux works well if you're lucky with your hardware. The BSDs work well if you don't plan on doing all that many things the OS isn't equipped to do out of the box and if you don't have any weird hardware.

[prmoustache]

>Well, that's one way to look at it: you need to carefully pick your distro, make sure it's compatible with your hardware, and so on. > >My way is rather: I don't want to even pollute my brain cache with that. I

That is exactly what you did by choosing Apple.

If you go on the redhat website and choose certified system you can pick your hardware from any vendor the same way you choose your Apple machine on the Apple store.

[jeroenhd]

nvidia is the bane of my Linux desktop as well but "just don't buy the most popular, compatible, best bang-for-the-buck GPU" isn't really advice that'll help anyone. I'd love for developers and researchers to stop using CUDA but the problem lies upstream. When the hardware and drivers work well enough on Windows the root cause may be that nvidia is a terrible vendor but that doesn't improve the user experience in any way.

With partial open sourcing efforts I predict that the nvidia situation will improve a lot the coming years, luckily. Until then, don't blame people who try Linux for nvidia's problems; there is no user friendly guide to find what hardware is supported how well for Linux and its kernel updates.

Furthermore, even supported drivers are a mess sometimes. There was a bug in the Linux kernel for months where the kernel would freeze up less than a second after boot if you had an Intel GPU and were using a second screen through DisplayPort. My laptop didn't have audio on anything but a beta driver package when I bought it. Ubuntu and friends simply couldn't use modern Intel graphics with multiple displays or hardware acceleration because the drivers were never backported to an LTS supported kernel. One in five times, my Manjaro install kernel panics on boot when switching from text mode to graphics mode, with no obvious way to debug; I was advised to get two USB to serial port adapters to debug the issue which would likely help, but I don't want to bother to be honest.

The world of Linux is full of driver issues, mostly graphics and sometimes audio, that are impossible to even debug without a second computer and a few years of Linux experience. Many common peripherals lack any kind of Linux support as well. The "shitty drivers" come from every brand on every product range and the only guaranteed method to work with you at stuff you'll find is to never ever upgrade your install once you get everything working.

I want Linux to be better for everyone, but overlooking its obvious flaws and blaming users won't get that done.