[Jenk]

Why did Betamax lose out to VHS? Why did MiniDisc never take off? Why does the internet still rely on JavaScript?

From my sideline perspective it's probably because Bluetooth was developed without knowing how successful and expansive its use would become. It was developed by mobile phone companies to connect wireless earpieces to mobile telephones, and that was it. The entire scope of the product that is Bluetooth. They didn't even expect it to be used for stereo (or more channels) audio, _just_ for telephony ear pieces.

It has since been used for many things that it just wasn't engineered to do.

However, it _is_ (or rather has become) a rather ubiquitous protocol through lack of alternatives, and now is the must-use option for any hardware vendors wanting to connect to nearby devices. Pragmatism/apathy.

[thematrixturtle]

I worked in telco in the early 2000s when Bluetooth hype was at its peak, and that's just not true: if anything, Bluetooth was hailed as the Next Big Thing because it would enable "Personal Area Networks" (PAN), a now all-but-forgotten buzzword. But don't take my word for it, here's the IEEE in 1999:

Examples of applications include Collaborative Maintenance, Mobile Worker, Medical Sensing, Data Synchronization, etc. Examples of devices, which can be networked, include Computers, PDA/HPCs, printers, microphones, speakers, bar code readers, sensors, displays, Pagers, and Cellular & PCS Phones.

https://grouper.ieee.org/groups/802/15/pub/par/5C.html

Funnily enough, it's the very last thing they mentioned, cellular phones, that ended up being the primary user!

Pedantic note: IEEE 802.15 was a grab-bag of various PAN proposals, with Bluetooth (IEEE 802.15.1) really the only one to go mainstream, although low-rate networks (802.15.4) like ZigBee were eventually adopted in the IoT world as well.

[foobarian]

I worked a bunch with BT closer to the physical layer, and I have to say I was always impressed by how well specified and implemented things were up to the link layer. I think it works fantastically well. But unfortunately it's an invisible achievement, kind of how IT folks don't get recognized when things work; instead when people say "Bluetooth sucks" it's usually due to poor app profile implementations/specs.

As a result, saying "let's invent a better Bluetooth" contains a hidden trap: it requires reinventing that really good core, which is probably really expensive, which then would not leave much to build better app profiles and we would end up with a similar problem.

We should not be inventing a better Bluetooth but fixing the app profile certification. I'm not sure what the right solution there is.

[spicybright]

Granted, I know very little about this, but I wonder if you could wipe the slate above the link layer for a "new protocol".

Devices all have bluetooth chips already, which is probably the hardest part of adoption.

Then you can define a new system on top, and even swap out the bottom if this new "red tooth" catches on.

Ofc you still have a massive uphill battle, particularly getting manufacturers to agree to a more sane spec than what we have currently (which I wouldn't hold my breath on, that's for sure)

[stinkledinkle]

Also the android bluetooth stack has always been trash, with it varying per vendor on how bad it got. It's getting better, but still.

[ricardobeat]

To this date I'm perplexed by how hard it is to send anything from one device to another in close proximity.

I remember being surprised when the first BT capable (Motorola?) phone I had couldn't send photos to a laptop, maybe twenty years ago. iPhones never got that ability over bluetooth. Airdrop is still hit and miss.

Bump.me was the closest thing to perfection, unfortunately Facebook acquired and immediately threw it in the dumpster.

[molasses]

What was bump.me? Photo sharing is why Instagram, Facebook and Whatsapp is insanely popular. Sharing photos is just difficult.

I've had to resort in the past of putting a small web server on the phone, just to get files off it via WIFI. But of course that's clunky.

If peer to peer networking were easier, trustable etc, it could be a real life saver. There's some feature in Google Files that's WIFI sharing, but I haven't tried it.

[ricardobeat]

You’d select a photo or any file to transfer, bump your phones together and ta-da, it was sent over. No accounts or friend lists necessary.

It used a mix of geolocation and wireless signals to determine the match and worked flawlessly. You could even do the same with a computer by bumping the phone against the spacebar!

This was over a decade ago. It’s very depressing to see great tech like this just disappear into the void.

[rchaud]

> Bluetooth was hailed as the Next Big Thing because it would enable "Personal Area Networks" (PAN), a now all-but-forgotten buzzword.

Apparently I have a PAN. First time I'm hearing the term!

I use BT to quickly transfer images and PDFs I find online from my phone to my laptop. All I needed to do was select "Share to Bluetooth" menu on my Android phone and select my MacBook from the list of available devices.

[Jenk]

Bluetooth was _adopted_ by IEEE 802.15, using Bluetooth as a base. It didn't invent it.

I'm also older than that. I was referring to the initial Bluetooth papers by Ericsson Mobile in the early 90s.

[pydry]

I remember this too. They even talked about "smart clothes". Like, in the future you'd have CPU in your jeans or something. For what purposes I was never really sure.

[causi]

Indeed. I well remember spending $150 for a ThinkOutside folding bluetooth keyboard and mouse for my PDA in 2005 and thinking it was the coolest thing ever. Shame you can't get a modern folding keyboard with that build quality.

[mikestew]

I might even still have my ThinkOutside lying around somewhere, but the keys were getting a bit sticky for some reason. There is something about that market that I'm obviously missing, because I'm astounded that no one has cloned the thing. Though I don't have the use case for one that I used to, I'd still spend the money again. It is such a cool little device, I'd find something to do with it.

[rgoulter]

I think it's relegated to low-volume hobbyists. e.g. this is low-profile, wireless, and looks well made. https://lowprokb.ca/products/corne-ish-zen

[causi]

I tossed mine for the same reason. I believe the fact all the keys are depressed when the keyboard is folded causes the rubber domes to permanently deform after years under compression.

[The_Colonel]

> It has since been used for many things that it just wasn't engineered to do.

I don't buy this line of reasoning.

Bluetooth is at version 5.3, it's not stuck at specification from 1998. The original revision might have been designed for only a few use cases, but later revisions added support for a lot of new things (e.g. multipoint) and I wouldn't be surprised if the protocol has been (several times) completely rearchitected to better support the new reality.