[daleharvey]

> First of all, I wonder how many people actually have suitable backup devices.

Virtually every group of people will have multiple backup devices, for people going solo it something that should (but isn't) recommended.

> Secondly, stuff does happen.

Stuff does and in every case if you want to follow a route having a little dot that shows you exactly where you are in relation to that route is better than having a map and compass. I am not sure why you are replying to my point as if it is not a choice for people to carry a phone with them but somewhat makes the point.

A properly prepared phone is a map and compass, it does everything a map and compass can do and then adds an extra useful feature of "and this is exactly where you are"

[ghaff]

I often hike by myself and, in general, try not to depend on other people having things unless pre-arranged.

I certainly use phone apps--including the Ordinance Survey app in the UK, which is very good. But if I'm hiking in an unfamiliar area, yes, I also do carry a map and compass because that seems like a low cost and effort backup. I'm absolutely not arguing against using a smartphone app as primary navigation. But I do also encourage having backup.

[daleharvey]

Yeh I often go solo and after a few experiences, particularly if its unfamiliar, I try to make sure to have a charged backup device with routes etc loaded.

Similiarly I am not arguing against people using a map and compass, but I think the current advice which is entirely focused on map and compass with little guidance for phone users (which if it exists, is always caveated) has a lot more to do with outdoors peoples notions of technological purity and less to do with public health

[ghaff]

I think we're actually in mostly violent agreement,

The ten essentials or whatever you want to call them are probably rather outdated.

I still think throwing a map and compass in your pack and having at least a bare minimum knowledge of how to use them is useful insurance in an unfamiliar area. But understanding mostly simple processes/backups for GPS is quite important as well. Details vary by circumstance/weather/etc. but simple steps in terms of downloading maps/having backup chargers/even a backup device/etc. are useful and I don't think have generally made it into basic hiking safety advice.

It's really hard at this point to credibly argue that "the ten essentials" don't include a smartphone.

[Rebelgecko]

Maybe Scottish hikers are more prepared, but probably 90% of people I see hiking would be screwed without cell service. The SPOT trackers are pretty rare, outside of the backpacking crowd

[aembleton]

You can get offline maps with AlpineQuest, OS Maps, mapy.cz and others. You do not need cell service. I recommend using airplane mode to preserve battery.