[steverb]

I don't think the blame can be necessarily be placed entirely on the school systems though. I find that I have to fight my own urges to over schedule my kids' free time. I am also way more involved in my kids' lives than my parents were, for better and sometimes for worse.

I think it's important for parents to make sure that their kids have some time to do nothing, get bored, and find their own mischief and passions. It's a tough balancing act.

[kstenerud]

My parents had a very laissez-faire approach to involvement in our lives. They'd have some family activities from time to time, but for the most part it was up to us to find things to do. We'd disappear in the morning and so long as we were back by dinner (mandatory family time), all was well.

Sometimes I'd go check out what my father was doing in his workshop, and he'd show me how to use the tools or teach me the theories behind whatever he was working on (construction, metal work, electronics, magnetism, etc). It was up to me to decide if I was interested enough to try my own hand at it, and there was no fallout if I decided after starting that I wasn't interested after all.

As a result, we've grown up to be independent thinkers. We don't depend on other people to give our lives meaning or to give us structure. And most importantly, we're all very creative.

Kids will find things to be interested in so long as you don't smother them or stunt their independence.

[nazgulnarsil]

anecdotes are not data. you have no idea of the correlation between your upbringing and your creativity and independence. twin studies disagree with you.

[john_b]

An anecdote about one's own life is not just an anecdote...it's personal experience. And personal experience offers a perspective that no amount of data can. We are discussing how to nurture creativity and productive skills, after all, and inherent in that goal there is a severe measurement problem that severely limits any data-driven approach.

The twin studies I'm aware of basically say that you can expose twins to identical circumstances and they will still turn out different. I'm not sure how that contradicts his main point though.

[randomdata]

I assumed he meant that two twins growing up under completely different circumstances will still turn out to be the same. Which then implies to me that success is already determined before birth. If true, working our young people hard or not working them won't have any profound affect on their lives.

Incidentally, my upbringing sounds a lot like kstenerud's. My brother and myself sound much like he and his siblings. Another anecdote, sure, but still an intriguing point of view.

[ericd]

Mine as well. Also an anecdote, but we had the same results. I'm definitely planning on raising my kids the same way.

[nazgulnarsil]

the problem isn't the conclusion he drew, it's that he made a causal link (at least he used causal language, "as a result we grew up X") instead of drawing a correlation. This would be wrong regardless of whether the conclusion was actually correct because no matter the conclusion, his experience is insufficient to make that causal link with high confidence.

[sliverstorm]

Kids will find things to be interested in so long as you don't smother them or stunt their independence

Spot-on, at least in my experience. My parents pounded into me a piece of wisdom- "Boredom is a choice". It seems to have paid off.

[codejoust]

Totally agree with boredom is a choice. My parents don't believe in boredom... if you say you're bored, there's always housework, books to read, things to do. It's just a question of what you want to do.

[billpatrianakos]

It is a tough balancing act. You just hope they grow up and thank you for it around age 25. I'm thanking my parents now recently.

It's really great to have them involved in things even if it's a lot of things. They'll tell you if they really don't like it. Don't confuse laziness or tiredness with disinterest, that's all. You never know if you did right until much later. All you can do is try what you think is best, hold your breath, and let the chips fall where they may.

A lot of times I think it all depends on the kid too. I was signed up for everything from swimming lessons to soccer to boy scouts and more before I even turned 1! That's right, before I was a year old! All things considered I turned out smart and productive.

My younger sister on the other hand wasn't very involved. My mom dragged her to girl scouts for a good 4 years or so and she hated it though it probably did her good. But she's great too! She's a straight A student coming up on graduating from Penn State in about a year.

So it's all just relative.