[exabrial]

The other day, in our _private_ parking lot, a car drove through with license platter scanner attached. Up and down each row. It wasn't marked, and the scanners were bolted on. Civilian plate, early 20s driver. We called the police, but they wouldn't do anything as the car was gone, and we didn't get the exact plate number.

Like _what in the actual @#$%? What jackass Silicon Valley startup is funding this operation? It's this kind of stuff, which is illegal, but because it's hard to enforce, people will get away with. These people have obviously trespassed hundreds of times.

[LinuxBender]

Along the same line, when I did work for a police department in a small town we started getting cops from LAPD that had a very different mind-set. They would drive around the theater parking lot which is a private lot and would ticket expired plates. Most of the people there were teenagers and the cops knew they were not likely going to fight it. The original small town cops would not do petty nickle-and-diming tactics like that.

[windows2020]

'Quasi-public property'

[LeifCarrotson]

If a car drove through with a human driver who was either looking for a specific plate/vehicle they thought might be parked in your lot, or a human who was simply following bad directions, no one would bat an eye or call it "trespassing".

The problem is that politicians and the law fail to recognize that there's importance in the quantitative difference between one human doing something, like reading a license plate, and a computer doing the same thing a billion times.

[nullc]

> or a human who was simply following bad directions, no one would bat an eye or call it "trespassing".

Humans venturing onto private property where they don't belong are regularly greeted by a property owner politely wielding a shotgun and offering to give them directions back to where they belong.

If anything, I think it's the addition of some computer contraption that creates the free pass, like putting on a hardhat-- if you've got gear people are more likely to assume that you're supposed to be there.

[Kye]

Brandishing is actually a crime in most places in the US. Laws vary, but you generally do not have a right to threaten someone's life with a gun--and the gun itself is a threat even if not pointed unless it's not in your hands--if they're not actually threatening you. Doesn't matter if it's your property.

[exabrial]

Just a nitpick: If you're on private property it's not brandishing. The other person would be trespass in fact provided it was posted or you told them to leave as an agent of the property. If you are threatening people off your property from your property that's a whole different ball of wax and in any scenario there are a ton of if/buts.

Brandishing laws come into affect on public areas and are subject to a lot of ifs/buts.

[nullc]

Indeed. Brandishing also generally requires using it to threaten, not merely have it in your obvious possession with the implication that you could use it to defend yourself if the threat escalated.

[abduhl]

Sounds like the GP’s instance happened in Silicon Valley based on their rant against SV startups. Silicon Valley isn’t the type of place where the property owner wields a shotgun and asks you to leave because they’ve made guns illegal, made kicking trespassers off almost illegal, or because their armed security guards never let you in in the first place.

[nullc]

More of a property of suburbia than silicon valley.

[dylan604]

There are private companies that roll around looking for cars scheduled for repossesion, and will call in their tow trucks if one is found. You'll also see cops do this in some of the "more affordable" motel parking lots, as these tend to attract the types with open warrants.

[jo6gwb]

In NYC they do this with NYC Marshals riding shotgun.

The vehicles are plain white and say scofflaw patrol.

Here's an article about it https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/seen-at-11-on-the-hunt-...

[dylan604]

The art in that article really is unimpressive. No pics of the cameras, no details of the screen used to ID, no pics of anything at all that is interesting and enhances the article. Just shows that even 8 years ago web journalism sucked

[bobthepanda]

CBS is a television station, so I would assume this is a transcript of a TV segment (how most TV stations post online content)

[dylan604]

i'd be shocked if the video segment was any better. however, where's the video segment?

[bobthepanda]

The article is 8 years old.

I feel like multimedia players come and go (unlike the stability of say the <img> element), so it’s entirely probable that the site looked different 8 years ago, and a migration or few later the video content was lost.

[kevin_thibedeau]

NYPD does this with their marked cars too (standard patrol cars with ALPR rig attached fore and aft). Ostensibly it's the meter maids expediting detection of parking violations but the data obviously has other uses.

[nimbius]

ah the venerable license plate.

welcome to the 21st century. parking garages, theme parks and malls routinely do this as well. entering a private parking lot is surely criminal trespass, but most cops dont care so long as your trespasser is gone and no damage was reported.

most highways, onramps, and many intersections include hidden or overt plate readers as well. airports use them extensively as well. Ive even seen them at a gas station car wash of all places.

the DMV in many states also sells your personal information for profit. through massive defunding and regulatory capture, the entire license process for a vehicle has largely become a thinly veiled clearing house to shore up random state departmental revenue.

[ev1]

> parking garages, theme parks and malls routinely do this as well.

Yep. https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/07/eff-responds-vigilant-...

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/07/california-shopping-ce...

[paconbork]

Could it have been someone working with a car repossession group?

[refurb]

It's this kind of stuff, which is illegal

It is? Is it a California specific law?

It is private property, but there is public access. You could ask them to leave, but I wasn't aware a crime had been committed.

[jcims]

How do you know that's what it was? Why would anyone need anything more than a simple camera for that application? Is it possible it was using LIDAR or some other tech for another application?

[thereddaikon]

Why does it matter? Why is it ok to drive through a private property and just scan shit, regardless of the specific technology used?

[jcims]

There are a number of valid reasons. Immediately jumping to the most conspiratorial may not be the healthiest approach.

[Guest42]

I'd want to know what was done with the data after the scanning. Perhaps a specific car is being sought and the data is discarded afterwards, which would be more ethical than keeping the data and attempting to profit off of it, regardless of whether it's "legal" and there's some attempt at "disrupting an industry."

[zmgsabst]

Okay — name a few specific reasons.

[hailwren]

Yeah, if I wanted to do a license-plate scanning startup -- I would just use an off-the-shelf dash cam and a laptop. No need at all for special optical equipment.

[nullc]

Under ideal conditions you'll be able to read a limited amount right in front of the camera. Want to read plates at/after dusk or to the sides (e.g. parked cars) and you'll need special hardware.

I have a fixed APNR camera on my property and even with good positioning it can't always read the plates (nor can I manually) because sometimes sunlight glare blows out enough of the image to hide a digit or two.

I promise you that the people building these systems didn't just fail to think of using an off the shelf camera before they went out and deployed the fancy stuff.

[dylan604]

And you'd miss a lot of the cars. By hanging them off the sides of the car, they can scan both sides of the aisle in one pass. They also need to be weather proofed, hence the housings.

[LeafItAlone]

Depends what the company’s focus is, right? If you want to do something with the data, why not use the already made, high quality devices that are relatively cheap. Seems like the important piece is likely using the data. (Unless you are trying to create the devices themselves, of course)

[nullc]

Property rights you're not prepared to enforce are meaningless. To start with: Put up a gate, it should be entirely effective against this kind of intrusion.

[tempnow987]

Some quick questions for your super outrage.

1) Did they break down a gate to get onto your private property?

2) Do ANY other folks use "your" private property? Are you falsely claiming ownership rights to something that has a form of common ownership?

3) When you claim it's your property and entry is forbidden - has ANYONE else given permission (explicit / implicit) for non property owners to access? Think of things like family members of an owner, guests, UPS drivers, delivery drivers , maintenance folks etc. Is it clear that anyone who is not an owner can't access? This is normally managed by an attended gate system or similar.

4) Are you one of those folks who like to yell at minority or others in your neighborhood who don't "belong"? We've seen videos of delivery drivers dealing with folks like you who (often falsely) claim ownership of property.

5) If you don't PERSONALLY own the property, have you been explicitly authorized to act as an agent of the property? You'd be surprised at the number of folks like you claiming personal ownership who actually have ZERO rights to trespass a delivery driver etc.

6) You've made a strong claim it's illegal for someone to come onto the property, CA law protects folks unless they have been trespassed. Has that occurred?

Note: Many property management companies partner with third parties to help manage lots. If you have a shortage of parking or someone actively managing lot (not you) they may contract for things like expired tags / stolen vehicles and other tow services. They may walk the lot. They can also pay for someone to come and see which cars may be parking regularly without paying required parking permit fees etc. Many homeowners PREFER that someone sweep their lots.

[InCityDreams]

Arguments great apart from: "dealing with folks like you who (often falsely)....".

Let the person answer the questions, and then start the crucifiction [sic]?

[tempnow987]

Great. I look forward to the answers!

Having been around the block a few times with folks who are

a) outraged

b) make ridiculous claims of criminal activity

I've gotten probably a bit too quick to assume they fall into a certain type of person. I look forward to hearing more about this parking lot that is so strictly controlled that merely driving through it is a crime.

[wildrhythms]

Maybe people don't want to live in a world where every minutiae of their life, including where they parked their car, is collected and analyzed by mysterious strangers.

[elliekelly]

What does parent commenter stand to gain from falsifying their comment? What do you expect to accomplish with your itemized incredulity?

[tempnow987]

The chance of this person individually owning a parking lot seems very very remote.

The chance that there was an illegal activity on the parking lot, if it regularly was in use by non-owners, seems even more of a stretch.

You can see plenty of videos online of folks "policing" spaces they don't ACTUALLY have the rights to (usually because they don't like skin color of someone).

I'm just saying, let's take the claims of criminal activity because someone was simply on a parking lot the OP claims to own with a grain of salt. A big grain :)