[Kaze404]

Taxes are the least soul-sucking aspect of this. I've spent an unreasonable amount of my life playing MMOs, especially the Korean ones, where most of the time the goal is to make (in game) money to get strong enough to take on the next piece of content. This is fun because it works like a version of capitalism without, well, everything else. Seeing numbers go up is fun, be it my character's Critical Damage or the funny number at the bottom of my inventory, and having a safe environment where that can be done at my leisure is fun.

But here's the catch: it doesn't stop there. Any of these games where progression is only gated by in-game money and player trading is enabled, will eventually grow an underground market of RMT (real-money trading). The second you're aware of this, it becomes impossible to think of the in-game money in a vacuum. Suddenly you go from playing for 8 hours to make 10 Million Mesos / Zenny / Alz / Whatever to working for 8 hours to make less than half you would working at McDonalds and trading that money for in-game money. This absolutely destroys any enjoyment you could possibly get out of the game, as it is no longer a game.

This isn't even to mention the people who literally automate the game to play itself to make passive income through hacks / bots, though admittedly that can be fun if you're the type of person who's drawn to breaking computers.

Tangent: my latest discovery solves this by just completely axing trading between players. You can collaborate in bosses for loot that gets split between everyone, but you can't just give anyone money directly. It's great!

[andreareina]

I like Path of Exile for having an explicit Solo Self Found mode. Unfortunately they seem to be on a path of making top-end gear pretty much required, which just pushes out the casuals. Good chance I'll be sitting the next league out.

[andrepd]

Oldschool Runescape has ironman mode as well

[kawaiikouhai]

Hah, did you happen to play Lost Ark at any point this year?

[Kaze404]

I played it for a bit but the combat felt like it was optimizing for spectacle rather than depth or satisfaction. Diablo III delivered the top-down grindfest fantasy better for me, so all throughout I kept asking myself why I wasn't playing that instead :p

But why do you ask? Did it go this route too? With Amazon money behind it I figured they'd be ruthless in stopping RMT.

[imtringued]

People smelt copper scrap into ingots. For a scrap yard this is completely pointless because they know how to inspect unprocessed copper waste and then have to cut the ingots up, you are spending money and time on your copper ingots and get less money in the end. Why do people insist on doing it? Because it is a hobby, because doing something yourself can be fun.

By your logic nobody should go on a vacation because the ROI is negative.

[Kaze404]

I'm not entirely sure I understand your comment, but I'm advocating for the opposite.

The ROI for a vacation isn't negative, because you're usually paid during those. In the situation that you're not, it just strengthens the point I'm trying to make. I personally took a 1 month sabbatical between jobs and it was one of the hardest decisions I've had to make. I knew I needed a vacation, but the thought of skipping an entire month's paycheck for that ate me up inside for the first week or so. And from what I've gathered, including talking about it on therapy, it's a common sentiment.

The point being that once money gets involved in a hobby activity, it infects every other aspect. It's no longer about having fun, it's about maximizing what you get out of it.

Note that I'm not saying this is a universal experience, but I've observed it in the situations I described in my original comment.