[superpie]

A manual transmission does have one upside. It creates engagement around the experience of driving, which I believe is something many vehicles lack. I sound like [old man yells at cloud], but people just do not seem to be paying attention to what they're doing in their giant metal death machines these days.

There are the fun aspects obviously. I know that when I want to pass another car, go around a corner at speed, and navigate snowy roads I'll be in exactly the right gear without the computer having to guess what I want. But those are secondary to the demand of attention created by it.

[julianlam]

I think Malcolm Gladwell talks about this in one of his books, that in general, drivers of manual transmission cars get in fewer accidents because they simply can't do some of the things that those driving automatic transmission cars take for granted.

e.g. eating and drinking, putting on makeup, etc.

wrt "the feel of the road", I think much of that is already lost with drive-by-wire technology. I haven't really had that feeling since I sat in a friend's old 90's civic and stepped on the throttle. You can get a little closer with Mazda tiptronic, but it's basically like "playing cars" instead of driving a car.

[tentboy]

i've been driving manual for the last seven years pretty much exclusively and i used to think that, but ive certainly found myself in all sorts of unsafe driving predicaments where i end up revving out the car, shifting with my left hand, shifting with food in my hand, etc.

In the last few years ive made a point to reduce distractions while driving and no longer do this stuff, but the point being, once you get used to manual - you find a way to be dangerous driving it haha

[voisin]

I agree with this. The brain is very good at getting comfortable with something, automating it, and pushing attention to other more novel things

[fendy3002]

Still less dangerous than automatic. Automatic is easier to cause panic acceleration since they don't need to manage clutch and transmission (almost).

Not a deal breaker for automatic though. Calmer driving, better experience and safety driving can prevent it.

[dieselgate]

I really like how manuals often require less brake action by the driver. They normally just decelerate on their own or with a downshift

[aworks]

Not a general occurence but this reminds me of a taxi driver I had in Wuhan. While driving 50 mph on the shoulder of the highway due to traffic, he was steering with one hand, shifting with his other hand and continuing to smoke a cigarette. Then his phone rang and he held it up to his ear to take the call. I didn't know whether to be afraid or impressed...

[latexr]

> they simply can't do some of the things that those driving automatic transmission cars take for granted.

They sure can, though it may be more inconvenient. In addition to the examples given by a sibling comment, I’ve seen a guy on a car with manual transmission steering with his knee while using both hands to eat ice cream from a cup.

[dieselgate]

This makes sense and hadn’t really thought about it that way. My mom had her right (shifting side) arm amputated when I was younger and there were a few times we were driving and I’d do the shifting for her. Don’t remember why I didn’t drive in the first place (and for the record her personal vehicle was automatic, though she was a firm advocate of manuals). I think it’s funny looking back on it but can’t say it’s particularly safe

[__derek__]

If he wrote that, Gladwell seriously underestimates the adaptability of humans. We manage to do unsafe stuff just fine as the shifting becomes second nature.

[JamesSwift]

And how are you supposed to replicate the thrill of an inclined start when at a red light and the guy behind you inches closer to your bumper! Or the excitement of transforming stop-and-go traffic from mindless time waster to mentally taxing gear shifting exam!

I kid somewhat. I drove stick for years and it was a neat experience that is definitely more engaging, and I'm glad I have the skill now, but I really despised it sometimes.

(EDIT: or the game of "how good are you _actually_ at shifting" when trying to turn onto a busy road between two passing cars!)

[aplc0r]

Hill start assist is a thing in "modern" manual transmissions. It automatically holds the brake for you as you engage the clutch so you don't roll back. After burning the clutch in my previous car when I was stuck climbing a packed parking ramp, it felt like magic the first time it kicked in.

Stop and go traffic can still be brutal. At least one of your legs gets a free workout.

[timeon]

> stop-and-go traffic

Regardless of transmission... If someone finds themselves in this kind of traffic on daily basis - they should reconsider the mode of transport.

[TadasPaplauskas]

I've been driving manual for the last 12 years. I enjoy and prefer it simply because it's more fun (to me).

That said, I don't think we should be making a virtue out of necessity. There's nothing objectively better about this set of mechanical constraints compared to another set of mechanical constraints.

I remember EV sceptics using similar arguments half a decade ago. No gears, no engine noise, no rumble - what is there to get excited about? Well, guess what, EVs are some of the most exciting cars to drive these days, and having no gears to shift definitely doesn't take away from engagement.

It's just a different experience - not necessarily better or worse.

Update: the safety/attention argument might only apply if you have to think about shifting gears, like in a first year or two. I live in Europe where many cars still have manual transmissions. Trust me, there are plenty of terrible and distracted drivers over here too :)

[HPsquared]

One major safety benefit of a manual is that some conscious or at least coordinated action is needed to get the car going.

Compare to an automatic or especially electric car, which will creep forward by itself and can accelerate strongly with an absent-minded prod of the accelerator.

These have much greater risk of unintended acceleration from a stop, which is the cause of a lot of accidents (mixing up the pedals, basically). Ironically in this way the manual car is more 'idiot-proof'.

[LorenPechtel]

And a manual is a higher barrier to a incompetent driver. A little kid isn't likely to get the manual to do anything--probably can't even start it. (Many have a safety that won't engage the starter without the clutch being pushed.)

I don't think it's an adequate reason to keep them, though. I exclusively owned manuals until 2013, at that point I found my objections with automatics no longer applied and no suitable manual existed--all were either bare-bones or sporty.

[pathikrit]

Teslas have creep off by default.

[xtiansimon]

> “…giant metal death machines…”

I live in the greater New York area and I walk a lot, or use my kick scooter (Xootr), so this is my perspective.

Comfy seats, phone, music, beverage holder—all the comforts of the living room—drivers are oblivious to everyone and everything around them. How many times is a driver ‘surprised’ when they realize you’re sharing the road with them. How entitled are drivers who flip out when anyone slows their forward progress. People wrapped in their personal auto-cocoon, and completely distracted and emotionally disconnected from people outside. Leave their air conditioned homes, and button up in their air conditioned cars. From isolation to insulated.

My family always had manual cars, and when someone dropped out, they would say, I’m too old, and too tired to drive the clutch. Automatic was for old people. Haha

[grubbs]

Another upside - much cheaper to repair and less maintenance.

The DSG version of my VW requires transmission fluid flushes every 40k! These dual clutch systems are incredibly complex.

My g/f's Acura has a 9-speed Automatic transmission. Can't imagine what it's like to work on one of those.

[eterevsky]

I doubt the difference in the maintenance cost is more than say 5%. Most of the maintenance doesn't involve transmission.

[grubbs]

Not sure. My father's Honda Pilot has a 9-speed German transmission. Service every 60k. Dealership wanted $900.

[XorNot]

Is that on the manufacturer schedule, because that's insane?

[grubbs]

Yup: https://www.shopdap.com/blog/post/service-schedule-for-mk7-a...

Every DSG VW needs it at 40k interval.

[Jeema101]

Speaking of snowy roads, it's also easier (in my experience) to get a car with a manual transmission unstuck in the snow because you can quickly alternate between first gear and reverse and rock the car.

Obviously wouldn't be an issue for people who live in warmer climates, though.

[cf100clunk]

It is also sometimes possible to get going on a slick or icy surface by directly using a lower (numerically higher on the shift knob) gear rather than having the wheel(s) spinning in first gear, the tallest of the forward gears. A car with a manual transmission can possibly be made to crawl out of the predicament by using third or fourth gear as the driver lets out the clutch with extra throttle to overcome stalling. This goes for 4x4s too, which seems lost on some of the folks I know today who don't have the background experience that earlier generations of drivers have had.

[eimrine]

Some vehicles not supposed for being used on roads like ЗиЛ-131 have first and reverse gears settled on a line against each other for making rock the car as easy as possible.

[BobbyJo]

When I first left college I was living with my grandfather and commuting 30 miles to my job. I had to leave early in the morning, and had to borrow his automatic car to make the trip until I could save the money for one of my own. I almost fell asleep on a few occasions, which convinced me that getting a manual for the trip would be safer.

When I could finally afford my own car, I purchased, as planned, a car with a manual transmission. It was engaging enough on the drive that falling asleep wasn't a risk.

[rascul]

It's still a risk in my experience. Unless you're driving on roads where you need constant shifting, but that's rare for me.

[ramesh31]

>A manual transmission does have one upside.

It has many, many upsides. With the only true downside being the skill needed to operate.

Manual transmissions aren't going anywhere. Yes, the latest greatest $35,000 car that average Americans are buying will always be an automatic. But for trucks and cheaper cars they will always be the best choice.

[cactacea]

I generally prefer manual for on-road driving but auto is a far better choice for 4wd technical trails and rock crawling. Trust me when I say you don't want to stall when navigating a tricky obstacle while hanging off the edge of a cliff.

[formerly_proven]

I'm somewhat sure that unsychronized 12+ gear truck manuals and float shifting are somewhat of an Americanism, because Eurotrucks seem to basically all use automated manuals (AMTs).

[eterevsky]

> only true downside

Its main downside is an additional cognitive load that it imposes. You need to do one more unnecessary thing to drive your car.

[zdragnar]

I think there are only one or two models of consumer pickup trucks left in the US that still offer manual transmission.

There's basically nothing left but automatic anywhere on the market here :(

[__derek__]

As far as I can tell, the manual is no longer the cheap option in the US. I assume that's because it uses exotic equipment put into thousands of cars rather than the standard stuff put into millions of cars:

Fewer manual cars produced => lower scale efficiencies => higher delivered costs

It could also reflect the willingness of enthusiasts to pay more for a manual transmission (or to avoid the automatic).

BTW, the average new car price is nearly $50k. RIP to the $35k latest/greatest.

[LorenPechtel]

My experience in 2013 was manuals were bottom of the heap, bare bones cars and sport cars, nothing else in the sort of stuff I was looking at. I suspect the latter is what's driving up the cost.

[__derek__]

The last time I bought a car was in 2012, and I had to wait for a manual to arrive on the lot. I haven't looked, so I don't know whether they're more readily available nowadays. I hear there's been a lot of change in dealer inventory in the last decade.

[goalieca]

> Manual transmissions aren't going anywhere.

I have not come across any manual EVs

[ramesh31]

>I have not come across any manual EVs

ICE vehicles aren't going anywhere, either. It will still be decades before we are even at 50/50 in the US.

[stewx]

Requiring more skill to drive is not necessarily a bad thing.

[XorNot]

This is like assuming that being able to program the VCR will make you a great software developer.

[tadfisher]

It's a start!

[arcosdev]

You are living in an absolute dreamworld. I give manual transmission 15 years tops.

[xnx]

Operating a manual transmission occupies the hand that >95%* of other drivers use their phone with.

* Made up number

[throwaway0a5e]

A manual transmission means your gear shift points are beholden to you and not to some corporate bean counter who's going to lean on the engineer to re-tune the shift points so he can get a bonus for squeezing out an extra .01mpg.

It's about corporate interests (cram a small engine in a big car and don't ever let the thing rev if you can help it) being directly contradictory to what makes for pleasant merging or hell climbing experience (let the thing rev and don't up-shift until it's time). This is a large part of why manuals stuck around so long in Europe.

[dubya]

I always hated automatics because I had only driven cheap rental cars with automatics. My family got a Mazda 3 with automatic a few years back, and it's so much better. I still prefer a stick in some situations, but it's not constant misery the way an Aveo or a Versa or a Yaris were.

[LorenPechtel]

That's not been my experience. Automatics will upshift given half an opportunity but mine behaves reasonably when you step on the gas. It can even very smoothly downshift if needed to deliver the power.