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by 656565656565 1408 days ago
Population control? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_population_planning

We will have no choice eventually.

5 comments

If we have to introduce population control it will be to increase the population. All developed countries are below replacement.
Is that bad? Surely we can manage with fewer than 8 billion people. A gradual reduction should be welcomed.
The more people we have the more specialization we can have. Do you want 1000 people designing a jet engine or 20?

What problems could we solve if we doubled the scientists and engineers working on it?

Plus every new birth is a lottery ticket for our civilization getting the next Einstein.

How many people is the ideal amount?
Great question. I feel more is better at this point and we’re not near any hard limit but I don’t know what a maximum would be.
Our technology is keeping up with our “hard limits”. If we were politically willing to build more nuclear reactors, we’d have zero problems with energy or water (desalination). Mineral scarcity turned out not to be. Land scarcity isn’t a thing (the entire world population could live in single family homes in roughly the same land area as Texas or Ukraine). And at our current tech level and rate of innovation, we could start have undersea domes or O’Neill cylinders by the time we ran into any of those limits.
You first.
Are you suggesting I'm advocating euthanasia? I just meant natural reduction in population over time due to lower birth rates.
That's exactly what's happening. Lots of people are already not having any kids.
Until per capita carbon emissions are below zero, falling population is a good thing.
I can’t think of any sentiment that I commonly hear that’s as ghoulish as that. As if the moral value of a human life is somehow less than her lifetime net carbon emissions. My only solace is the hope that people who believe that sort of thing will go extinct and be replaced by people whose values are closer to mine.
We're up against massive loss of biodiversity, loss of habitable space on the planet, and an enormous amount of human suffering and loss of human life due to the current and future effects of climate change. A smaller population will not solve these problems alone, but it will buy us more time to solve them.

FWIW, I'm not trying to promote anything extreme like population control policies, just pointing out that the current trend of population leveling off is generally a good thing.

That seems to be the trend. It makes sense, people who choose a laziness born of pessimism are probably not virile enough to raise children. Surprised to see this kind of thinking here though; if you are an engineer who is good at solving problems, you should raise children that are also good at solving problems. Point them at our climate/sustainability/energy issues.
And yet there is housing crisis almosy everywhere, prob govs will have to force people to move out from the big cities
I agree that population control mostly solves our environmental issues.

But I don't trust humans to make such collective sacrifices willingly. We're just too lazy, stupid, and selfish.

I think the more likely outcome is that reality will control our population for us, via drought, famine, war, and epidemic.

The 1700s called. They want their Malthusian catastrophe back.
Degrowth is false. If we lost population, the environment would get worse - as we wouldn't be able to maintain modern technology, we'd go back to the real bad stuff like coal and wood burning.

The US's total CO2 emissions have been going down for a decade or two now, even after population growth. And no, it's not because we outsourced them.

I mostly agree, I added purely based on my opinion of the original posters ask
Uhh fuck that (pun not intended). We are not the problem, America has plenty of space, there is no need. SE Asia is stabilizing. Africa has a lot of birth but also a lot of space left.

There will probably be some places with "natural" population control from lack of food or from disease bht that doesn't mean "we" have to do anything.

You def can't be pro-choice or anti-fascist then support population control.

I never mentioned pro-choice or my stance on it or population control. For the record I support choice. I added the topic purely in response to the OP ask.
I mean fair but when you say "we will have no choice" that sounds like you support it. If not apologies and my comment wouldn't really apply.
The problem that we should be talking about is the exact opposite.
You scare me.