[faeriechangling]

This is an old article, but at least it openly makes the case that we should value racial diversity and people who look like "the communities they serve" being valued more, and absolute technical perfection being valued less. We discriminate based on absolute technical perfection, instead we should discriminate based on identity and then based on absolute technical perfection. That's about as coherent as an argument as I've heard on the subject, and it's an argument entirely about what we should value, which makes it difficult to logically refute.

Personally, I don't see any reason each orchestra can't come up with its own basis to select its members, and you can let people vote with their feet.

[jshzglr]

Should basketball teams be more representative as well. Where does this end?

[MisterMower]

I don’t think the extremely talented musician who loses out to a less talented musician just because they checked the right identity boxes will find that argument persuasive.

[faeriechangling]

Extreme talent is something you're born with, like much of identity. Why is selecting for one wrong, and the other right? Especially when selecting for identity will result in a final outcome that is preferred by some consumers of the orchestra?

I'm not super convinced by my own reasoning myself, but I can make a better steelman case for this argument than the typical "racism against groups we don't like is anti-racism" woke schlock I often read. The argument the article makes is simple, plainly stated, free of bullshit, to the point.

[MisterMower]

> Why is selecting for one wrong, and the other right?

Choosing musicians based on arbitrary, superficial metrics instead of their ability to produce excellent music will result in worse sounding music.

> Especially when selecting for identity will result in a final outcome that is preferred by some consumers of the orchestra?

The final outcome consumers of the orchestra are paying for is excellent music.

No one goes to the symphony and complains about there being too many white people or Asians on the stage. I can't think of a more tasteless thing to do at such an event. It's literally racist, too, by the way. The race or sex of the people who are on stage is irrelevant. The music they make is what people are paying attention to, and in my experience, that's what people talk about after the performance, not the color of the bassoonist's skin.

The article's premise and conclusion are complete bullshit, too: "If ensembles are to reflect the communities they serve, the audition process should take into account race, gender and other factors."

Firstly, no reasons are given as to why an ensemble should reflect the community they serve. If you're going to steelman something, start there, instead of the strange, tangential strawman you raised.

Plenty of white folks watch basketball or football, despite the fact that a large majority of the players are not white. That doesn't seem to bother anyone. The concern only flows in one direction, apparently.

Further, the evidence mentioned in the article actually contradicts the conclusion being drawn: blind auditions did result in more women being hired for the New York Philharmonic.

Symphony orchestras don't exist to "serve" a community, except perhaps in the sense a bus service "serves" a community by offering bus rides for a price. They primarily offer a service in exchange for money.

If we're going to whine about members of the symphony not reflecting the community they serve, then they should be arguing for less minorities on stage, not more. The majority of folks that freqent the symphony are white people. To accomplish the goal the author has in mind, he'd need to make the symphony more white, not less.

Imagine yourself at a job interview. Despite your superior qualifications, another candidate gets chosen for the job based on something superficial about their appearance, even though they are demonstrably unqualified. Can you see why this is a terrible idea? Why the arguments the author is making are, in fact, convoluted and complete bullshit?