[user00012-ab]

I would love to see a site where people posted stuff they have been doing for over a year and it still works for them.

Seems like all these blog posts are, "I Started doing this yesterday, and I'm going to do it for the rest of my life... or tomorrow when I blog my next big thing I'm going to do forever."

I'm more interested in stuff people have stuck with and actually works for them when the novelty of the medium wears off.

I'm not saying pen and paper isn't great, but I'm more interested in the system that evolves if you actually use something over a long period of time.

[powersnail]

The tool doesn't matter. What works, is to actually do the stuff consistently.

One of the most productive people I know, took her lecture notes in the comment panel of PowerPoint in college, simply because _it's there_ when she open a lecture note. UI wise, it's probably worse than any note taking system that has ever showed up on HN. Nevertheless, she was a straight A student juggling 2 majors, 1 minor, and a lot of social life.

This is what I observed in hyper productive people: some of them have a unique, novel system of organizing their knowledge, but many of them don't. So, having such a system is probably not that important.

And even though I'm not a hyper productive person, this applies to what I'm good at doing as well. You can take away my favorite text editors/plugins/command line tools, and I can still competently write programs. I can code in notepad.exe if I have to. It won't be as convenient, but I can absolutely be productive.

It's the same for writing/reading/thinking. If you can already write, it's fine to try to perfect your workflow. If you can't write, it's not because you have the wrong pen.

[syntheweave]

Just today my inner voice was refraining the saying(which I learned online, but appears to be of military origin) "fast is smooth, smooth is slow".

Many of my most productive workflows have come from finding smoothness. There's a lot of stop/start in digital: something commanding your attention that is not the task, that needs immediate resolution. Often the "proper" way of dealing with it means stopping again, and the "improper" way blows up down the road. Deal with that a few times and suddenly I find myself browsing Twitter, because I've reached a "good stopping place." When that happens, it doesn't matter that it was "fast". I did one part of the actual thing fast, and then I wasted the rest of the time.

[deepGem]

Wish more people understood this. We spend a lot of time changing tools and it's as bad or worse than context switching. Every tool has a learning curve and if you keep switching tools, you are always stuck in the initial part of the learning curve. I think this greatly hampers learning.

Hyper productive people who I have seen as well exhibit similar behavior. They just stick to tools that they are comfortable with and focus on the task at hand.

Also another anecdotal observation - some of the best chefs I have seen don't usually switch tools, be it knives or utensils. They mostly stick to the same tools for a very long time. So they invest in tools that can last and can be maintained. Not sure if the analogy holds true in other fields as well.

Pen and paper as a form of expressing streaming thoughts works for me as well. It also works because I write a lot slower than I can type. Ever since I have started writing pretty consistently over the last 4-5 months, the format of pen and paper doesn't really matter to me. I can write using any pen and any paper. I have found fountain pens to be particularly cumbersome to maintain and also my kids just take whatever pen is on my table and run off. As a result I just have a 100s pack of the same cheap pen. One went missing, pick up another one.

[brailsafe]

I've thought about this quite a bit, and I think a lot of the luck that "hyper productive people" have in getting to a state of hyper productivity, is basically like you say, but finding that thing that works for them if there is one earlier than others.

Now at 30, I'm not that productive, but there are many things I have to deal with regularly that I just haven't found very productive ways of operating with.

Right now, fwiw, writing my day out on pen and paper before I open my computer has lent me slightly increased levels of focus, but I think that for marginally more successful people, some of these gains were realized early on and happened to work for them, or they didn't need them.

I do think this extends somewhat to more general life circumstances like stable family life and not being so susceptible to distractions.

I also think that for some people who have the intellectual capability, juggling 2 majors and 1 minor might be just what they need to deal with the former.

[majou]

notepad.exe user reporting in; I neglected my gentoo install one month too long on an FFXIV binge...

I find that notepad has all the features I need, I generally only work on my own code so I don't need fancy tooling.

[ljvmiranda]

Hi there, author here! Been using pen and paper (for knowledge work) since 2017. Hope that helps

[user00012-ab]

that does help, thanks!

[larve]

I have been keeping sketchbooks since 2010, where I decided "this is something I'm going to do forever". I have started another "I'm doing this forever"-project where I started writing daily in 2020, my obsidian vault linked below is the result. Ask me again in 10 years.

I do a lot of digital notetaking currently, along with more analog index card and sketchbook notetaking. I stopped drawing in 2018 due to work burnout, but hope to pick it back up soon!

https://publish.obsidian.md/manuel/ZK/Sketchbooks

https://publish.obsidian.md/manuel/Public/My+Obsidian+workfl...

[wcarss]

+1 to sketchbooks. I started using them in ~2014 and have never stopped. The tricks for me were to fold each page in half to get more columns and restrict my wandering handwriting/doodles, to find cheap books (which still have hard covers) at a local art store that serves students, and to make sure I always write the date/time down when I start a new train of thought, with a heading.

Every few years I go through the last 12-20 notebooks and take pictures, then get rid of them. I don't go back through them that much, really, beyond things more than ~6 months old, but when I do I feel like it's a goldmine.

[larve]

Digital notes are much more useful for getting long term value out of them, I found. Paper notes are fun, and it's much easier to sketch things freely and just doodle on them.

Paper sketchbooks are also really useful as temporal artifacts. Looking back at them, I know where I was, I discover things I have forgotten, they have different formats, they mix life with work with hobby. I don't think the digital notes will have the same nostalgia factor.

[s0rce]

I've used pen and paper for years (since my PhD 15 years ago). Writing it down helps it go into my head, I don't go back and look at the notes.

[nordsieck]

> Writing it down helps it go into my head

This is what I've found as well.

In high school, a gym teacher forced us to copy his slides for sex ed. At the time I thought it was completely stupid. But come test time, it was amazing how much I remembered. Like you, I've never felt the need to re-read my notes - just writing down the information has been enough.

I've carried the habit with me, and it's continued to work well for me.

Something about hand writing is just much more effective than typing. I wish it weren't so.

[kumarvvr]

Yeah. This works for me too.

Unfortunately, I am in the middle of kicking an internet addiction and I have not had the same concentration as before.

But things are improving. I have dozens of books with ideas, doodles, solutions, architectures, code and what not, strewn across my house.

[justajot]

Same.

[codazoda]

I’ve been writing stray thoughts in a pocketbook for about 18 months. That also lead me to keep a modified Scanners Daybook (similar to this post). I’m on my second such notebook and have been doing so for nearly a year.

Finally, I keep a third notebook for travel. The idea being that I don’t want to lose my original, but I probably don’t want to lose my travel one anymore either, so…

Anyway, this can be a successful long term thing.

[kstrauser]

Same here. I wrote about my experiences here: https://honeypot.net/post/digital-notes-are-better-than-pape...

In summary, I kept reading about people who prefer paper, or why paper is better than digital, but I just can't get into it. I've tried, with nice tools and a daily commitment to using them, but it just doesn't work for me.

The best compromise I've found is a nice size Rocketbook that I can easily OCR into a notes app later.

[bthallplz]

I'm also really interested in hearing more about processes that people have been maintaining or making subtle improvements on over a long period of time.

I think that there's an issue of people being less likely to talk about their long running projects or processes because over time they forget the what and why behind it and/or their enthusiasm for it fades away. Accordingly, maybe we should pre-register our thoughts about a process or project at the outset and not publish it until later on, when we can retrospectively talk about our success with it.

[eternityforest]

I've never made a serious attempt to add paper to my life, the only time I did was in the pre-smartphone era.

But I've definitely had no issue sticking with digital notes. I've changed apps but the process is basically the same. But I'm an outlier in tech, with an extreme high tolerance for complex black box systems, and most techies seem to feel uncomfortable without that 1 to 1 feel paper or DIY coded digital gives.

Paper lovers seem to stick with paper for decades, very consistently, they'll pick up a pen multiple times a day for years.

Some don't seem to have any specific process, they have many notebooks and things for different purposes, and they constantly try new things. I almost wonder if people who really value direct experience and experimentation are drawn to paper more than people who value predictability and control.

I see them make quick notes on napkins, make little areas full of random bits of important information, bullet journal in a nice moleskine, etc.

It's kind of amazing to watch, since some of these things could cause multi hour inconvenience if lost, and they don't mind not having sync. They must have a pretty good memory.

It seems like the real "process" and "tool" is a constant state of flow and change that they move with. Paper use looks to me like a totally different lifestyle and way of relating to the world, information, and your own mind, that probably has dozens of subtle effects.

Like, all my notes are in Obsidian, which makes it almost a second brain.

Paper notes are stored in specific places and you can only access them if you physically have them, which means the only always-accessible thing is still your own mind, and your notes are a bit more distant from yourself.

[nordsieck]

> I would love to see a site where people posted stuff they have been doing for over a year and it still works for them.

Here's the one thing that's stuck with me:

I started carrying earplugs with me in 2002. I was forced into it by the Army, but I've kept it up all these years because of how great it is. They completely disappear into the pocket, and when you want them, you *really* want them.

But they're great, even when most people wouldn't think they "need" them. Here's some examples:

* Using power tools like a blender, mixer, or lawn mower. * Sleeping during the day, in a strange place, or around other people (e.g. on an airplane). * Working in a public space like the library, a coffee shop, a bus, or an airplane.

If you like going to shows or dancing, they're great to have in case you need them.

I think the benefit of earplugs has decreased for the average person since noise cancelling earbuds are so widely available, but in my experience earplugs both block more sound and they block different things. Of course the downside is, you can't listen to audio with them in. But the upside is you never have to worry about charging them.

In my experience, the reusable flange style earplugs are fine for light use, but they can sometimes be painful with extended wear (6+ hrs per day for months at a time). I went out and got a bulk pack of foamies, which I assume will last me the rest of my life. The only downside to the foam earplugs is, if you get them wet, you can reuse them.

I suspect they've worked particularly well for me because I think being bored for some amount of time during the day is healthy, and I find I get distracted by listening to music or podcasts.

The benefit:weight, volume, and price is absolutely amazing.

[bitsoda]

Glad to read there's others like me. My friends and family like to poke fun at me for carrying ear plugs, but I find most audio too damn loud at events and it's nice to be able to shave 30dB off and know I'm not damaging my hearing.

[Slow_Hand]

Seconded.

8 years ago I had impressions made of my ears and invested in some custom-fit earplugs that evenly attenuate the entire frequency spectrum and don't roll off excessive high-end like foam plugs.

They come in a tiny coin purse that fits anywhere and if I find myself in a public space where I'm at a risk of fatigue or hearing damage (concert, construction site, airplane, etc) I just pop them in.

That said, I'm a musician and audio engineer and thus highly protective of my hearing. But such events are so much more pleasing and sustainable with a quality pair of earplugs. Reducing the decibel level hitting my nervous system really helps to prevent anxiety and tensions that one might normally experience from the exposure to loud noises. It makes every experience so much more comfortable and I would replace them in a heartbeat, should they go missing.

I think most of us (especially those living in cities) take for granted just how loud these everyday environments actually are and the effect that it has on our mental well-being. Earplugs may not be a priority for most, but they are a simple, highly underrated remedy to the ambient soundscapes that many of us are exposed to every day.

[wellthisisgreat]

It’s interesting where did you get them? Have a link?

[selimthegrim]

You can’t reuse them you mean

[nordsieck]

> You can’t reuse them you mean

You mean foam earplugs? You absolutely can reuse them.

You can't reuse them if they get wet (they don't stay compressed when you roll them up - a necessary step before inserting them). And I throw them out if they get too dirty.

But I generally get 7-15 uses out of a set of foam plugs before I chuck them. It depends on how much I sweat when I'm using them, and how dirty my ears are.

[wellthisisgreat]

The only thing that worked for me throughout the life is nested unordered list. It forces you to process the information on the fly and come up with a structure, that you may be urged to revisit if you feel unsatisfied with its hierarchy.

Learned about it 25 years ago from history professor of all people

[justajot]

Well, a personal anecdote: I have been using pen and paper in a similar fashion as the author for over 20 years. In fact, the last few years I’ve been using literally the same notebook and pen they mention (albeit with different ink).

It works because I much prefer to think with pen and paper. I have a tendency to rush through things and this forces me to slow down. I can always take the results and make them digital, which I often do. Lately this has served as a useful way to re-acquaint myself with previous thoughts and connect them with newer thoughts. And I use Bear for that along with a good keyboard.

[bsima]

I have roughly ten years of notebooks in a box under my desk. They are all some kind of “bullet journal” method: date at the top of the page, items below, index in the back.

[tevrede]

Do you ever refer back to them?

[ozzydave]

For me, only occasionally, but when I do it’s often a huge help - can save an immense amount of time not re-doing that work. Most of the value is in helping align my thoughts as I go though.

[bsima]

Yeah and sometimes I go back to them just for nostalgia. But truly the archiving doesn't matter all that much. I like the Field Notes tagline: "I'm not writing it down to remember it later, I'm writing it down to remember it now."

[thenerdhead]

I've went through just about every app and I'm back to pencil and journals.

I do use apple notes for just about everything when I have my phone and no pencil/journal nearby.

I think most note taking systems being pushed by "productivity gurus" is compelling at first but then comes a realization that's not how we actually think.

There's merit to things like "building a second brain", but I think it has to start with analog notes.