[theshadow]

>>The "bad" qualities are what made them effective. If they didn't have them, you would never have heard of them.<<

Please justify the above statement. How could you possibly know that? What is to say that these people would not have gone to achieve even greater heights if it had not been for their bad qualities? There is something incredibly depressing about this attitude that pretty much states that it's okay to be a complete and utter jerk if you have achieved some level of success. Maybe it's cool to say that because it's counter-cultural thing or maybe we as a society have reached a state where people have a knee jerk tendency to apotheosize those who are successful and explain away their flaws as somehow critical to their success (also read the Mark Pincus stuff to further observe this phenomenon). Either way it's depressing.

[wallawe]

Ex. 1: People would go the length of the world making sure that they accomplished every minute detail of what he had asked to perfection. Had he not been such a hardass and callous type person, I highly doubt things would have been done in the time frames and to the scope that he required. It's the tragedy of success in his circumstance. Take the bad with the good.

[Apocryphon]

He could have done that without screwing over Wozniak. He could have been a perfectionist without acting petulant.

[unalone]

He could have. Those were character flaws that he may have been better without. Perhaps if he'd lived another 20 years he'd have outgrown his petulance.

Then again, maybe not. Petulance isn't the worst thing a person can be. If that's the character flaw somebody clings to in their old age, they're probably not entirely bad. Screwing over Woz was much worse, but he was in his twenties, and twentysomethings barely count as human beings. (I say this as a twentysomething myself.)

[anon808]

maybe thats true in some cases for steve jobs, but that doesn't have to be true for you. there are no rules. start a company where people would go the length of the world making sure that they accomplished every minute detail of what you had asked, to perfection by not yelling or demeaning them . . . it's possible. move things forward. steve (and others) have shown the world that you can use aggression to motivate folks, show the world that you can use an even-temper. nothing's holding anyone back. nothings written in stone.

[syncerr]

You're saying his way was the only to motivate people?

[maratd]

> Please justify the above statement. How could you possibly know that?

Please provide an example of a single billionare or minor celebrity who isn't an asshole. The fact that you can't is evidence enough.

> There is something incredibly depressing about this attitude

What is really depressing is that you feel your life isn't worthwhile unless you are incredibly "successful" and you define success as being filthy rich or being a minor celebrity or really a clone of Steve Jobs/Bill Gates/Larry Ellison/etc. I know myself. I know that I don't have the qualities necessary to be that and knowing that has relieved me of any desire to have that.

More than that, that single realization has allowed me to focus on the qualities I do possess! It has allowed me to become a more supportive leader. My team will never make the next google.com or iphone. That's ok. Instead, they'll have families and they'll spend time with them. They'll do amazing work! Just not on a scale that will earn me billions. That's fine by me!

[blyuher]

>Please provide an example of a single billionare or minor celebrity who isn't an asshole.

What about Warren Buffett?

[maratd]

> What about Warren Buffett?

It is very easy to trash another person. As an example, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Buffett#Personal_life and see the wonderful letter he penned his grandchild.

That's not the point.

The point is that all of my experience tells me that you really have to be an asshole and stand on the backs of others to get that far. Nobody is born nor becomes such a savant that people shower you with billions of dollars. You have to be smart, devious, aggressive, and abrasive. That just isn't me. It's not you either. That's OK.