[toolz]

El Salvador uses it as a government enforced national currency. I struggle to understand how people still make the claim that it's useless or that it's niche - it's a recognized and enforced national currency now, not some neat project.

[acdha]

Who's using it? How many people did more than get that free starter wallet and cash out? How many transactions happen daily? How many businesses would notice if Bitcoin dropped off the planet tomorrow?

(Hint: the fact that people were rioting in the streets to _avoid_ it suggests the answer is not many)

[spicymaki]

Is bitcoin an investment or a currency? I don't think it can be both.

If the value of bitcoin as speculative asset is going to rise, then it is best to not spend it, but to hoard it. If everyone is hoarding bitcoin how can you use it to buy things?

If it is a currency then it needs to have a stable value. If the value stabilizes, then no one will want to invest in it. Since it does not have any "real" commodity value it would then death spiral. I don't know how you square this circle.

[boppo1]

I agree that bitcoin needs to decide whether to be an investment or a commodity of exchange.

> If everyone is hoarding bitcoin how can you use it to buy things?

When people need something more than bitcoin, they'll trade for it. Food, shelter, medicine, etc. People will certainly trade for these things. But maybe they'll pass on replacing a phone that's only 2 years old or getting an xbox or 6 pack of beer.

It's fascinating to me that people say currency can't be deflationary or people will hoard it. You're so against people hoarding, i.e. saving money? People act like the economy will stop, but no matter how deflationary a currency is, people will still trade it for needs like food and shelter.

[hnthrow1010]

>You're so against people hoarding, i.e. saving money?

The problem with this kind of system: It's not just about saving. What's actually happening is those who have saved more are accumulating even more money by doing nothing, and everyone else who needs to spend it to buy food and shelter is suddenly losing more and more of their money. When it starts happening at a faster rate than the economy is producing actual value then you hit hyperdeflation and the economy spirals.

[boppo1]

Hmm. What if we had a central committee mandated to target 2% deflation? Just the right amount of saving, not too much.

[hnthrow1010]

That would be disastrous for anyone who has a debt to repay.

[WaitWaitWha]

Is there not an entire currency speculation market? [0]

> When speculative investing involves the purchase of a foreign currency, it is known as currency speculation. In this scenario, an investor buys a currency in an effort to later sell that currency at an appreciated rate, as opposed to an investor who buys a currency in order to pay for an import or to finance a foreign investment.

[0] https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/speculation.asp

[spicymaki]

Sure, I get the idea of currency speculation. You can speculate on anything including currency. The problem is when you try to make currency out of a speculative asset. In this case of bitcoin the value is highly volatile, so you would not want to use it as a national currency. I do know that bitcoin was originally envisioned as a currency, but most people are using it as an investment. You also have not addressed the issues I presented.

[2muchcoffeeman]

I don't think it's reasonable to think about it in such a simplistic way.

BTC has been subject to massive swings. Just looking at CoinDesk, it was easy to find a time where it doubled in value in less than a month. Why would any reasonable person spend that sort asset?

I think the dynamics of the market are as important as the technical features that some digital currency has.

[hnthrow1010]

But for the average crypto investor who isn't a whale and isn't insider trading on the whales, the dynamics of the market are effectively just random. This isn't like a stock where you can objectively look at the company, compare it to other companies and understand how it derives profit. It can't work either as a currency or as a reliable investment.

[simonw]

The failure of crypto to actually take off in El Salvador is pretty well documented at this point I think.

[lr4444lr]

It's not enforced. It is legal tender, but the US dollar is still their currency, last I heard.

[Mr_P]

What a convenient source of liquidity for the various drug cartels in El Salvador who need to launder their money.

[toolz]

Yes, so convenient that over a decade after its inception, still well over 95% of the black market operates in fiat instead.

[douglaswlance]

Why would they use a public, transparent ledger to launder money?

[lumost]

Lower counterparty risk, and harder to confiscate. Money can sit in a crypto wallet and be used for illicit transactions until favorable circumstances allow conversion out of btc. You can’t do that with cash in a bank.

With the amount of shady alt coins and defunct btc exchanges separating authentic vs bogus transactions is even tougher for regulators.

[CodeShmode]

There are many ways to launder money.

[plebianRube]

What a staggeringly uninformed comment.