[gadders]

>> These are jobs that usually pay above average salaries, people simply don't want to work on the evening (restaurants serve dinners, you know...)

People will do all sorts of unsavoury jobs if the pay is high enough. Plenty of people work night shifts in various jobs.

>> There are limits though, over a certain threshold it becomes nonsensical, at some point it's better to kill the job sector entirely and call it a day.

This we can agree on.

------ Update due to the posting too fast rules ----

If I offered to pay you $10,000/night as a waiter in a restaurant, I guess you would take the job. I would.

If I offered you $1/night, you probably wouldn't.

Hopefully, somewhere between those two points is a number that will get people to work and be profitable for the restaurant owner. I'm not sure why people think supply and demand applies to other goods but not labour.

[worker_person]

Upper Limit. Hiring you at $3,000 a month will increase my income by $3,000.

No reason to hire you. Below $3,000 and I can make money.

But ~1/3 employees are lazy and I can't fire them. So I have build in some safety margin for the bad employee's.

So I can pay you $2,000 a month and on average I'll break even. No thanks.

So I can pay you $1,500 a month, I'll make $500.

[peoplefromibiza]

> People will do all sorts of unsavoury jobs if the pay is high enough. Plenty of people work night shifts in various jobs.

One would think...

Problem is that people that are willing to do that are not that many as you imagine.

Maybe where you come from people would kill themselves for money, but not here.

You know who would do almost anything to get a job and become better integrated with society while also feeling better about themselves?

Immigrants.

> If I offered to pay you $10,000/night as a waiter in a restaurant, I guess you would take the job. I would.

Surprise, I would not.

My best friends have restaurants and pubs, if I ever wanted to do that job I would already do that.

But it's not my job, it's not what I am good at and if someone gave me $10,000 night to do that job I would feel like a fraud. Also I would imagine that if you pay me that much, one that is actually good at the job is being paid at least 2x that amount, because I really suck at that!

People have consciences, believe it or not not everyone is a money-slut.

I'm much better off doing my job, which is what I really like to do.

But back on topic: if you offer a waiter 2,000 euros / month + tips (it's a very good salary in Italy) and they stop coming at work after a few days "because I wanted to go to the beach with my friends" there's something different going on, which is not "not enough money".

Besides: there are many psychological studies that point out that people would accept lower salaries for more meaningful jobs or better work/life balance and that they work more willingly if it's a favor to someone (even if it's people they do not know) and/or for free than for a paid position, where they feel like they are only doing it for the money but don't really wanna do that. So they prefer to say no to the money and don't do the thing at all.

Correlations have been found.

For example, I would push someone on a wheelchair for free, but if they offered me money to do it, I would politely refuse with an excuse, because it's not something I wanna do for money (not that I do not like money in general, it's that I do not want to do it as a job, paying someone it's exactly that: hiring the person for the job)

[flerchin]

> Surprise, I would not.

Yes, I find it surprising. Seems to not compute.

>But back on topic: if you offer a waiter 2,000 euros / month + tips

This is poverty wages. That waiter would never be able to afford a home and family of his own. The waiter would find time to go to the beach around his work schedule if he was properly compensated.

[peoplefromibiza]

> Yes, I find it surprising. Seems to not compute.

“There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.”

I have to guess that you're slave to the money, I'm not.

I really don't care about them , as long my life is not in danger.

> This is poverty wages

LOL

American, right?

Average salaries in Europe are not much higher than that

Italy: €1.740

Spain: €1.800

Portugal: €1.1160

UK: €2.200

And these numbers are after taxes (which are quite high for US standards here, but also they really are not if you wanna define yourself a decent developed Country). So the employer is spending almost 2x, which is not bad per se if you ask me, but that's still something to consider.

> . The waiter would find time to go to the beach around his work schedule if he was properly compensated.

Restaurants are closed usually at least one day/week and 2-3 weeks off-season (it depends on the geography for some it's August for others it's fall/winter).

It's just that most of them close during the week and people want to go to the beach with friends and/or family on weekends.

But then again, you don't complain that there is no job if you don't want to do any job you're cut for and are not qualified for well paid, highly skilled jobs.

Please, if you wanna discuss things, can you at least learn the bare minimum to actually have a conversation that is not entirely based on your prejudices and stereotypes?

[flerchin]

And €1.740 is enough to afford an average home in Italy? Raise a family? Seems not enough to me.

[peoplefromibiza]

Half of the population is doing it with less than that, so I guess the answer is yes.

Also: salaries are per capita, two people with kids on average earn 2x that.

Most of Italy is not big costly cities, but small towns where prices are much more affordable.

You can rent a 100 square meters house in Taranto centre (quite large city in Apulia) for about 500-600 euros/month.

You can eat out in a restaurant and have a full meal for 20 euros.

Of course they are not getting rich.

Of course there are people who literally cannot live on their income and we should do more about it, like raising wages, for example, when possible.

Reminder: after taxes, which means free healthcare and free schools.

Taxes are paid by the employer as part of the salary.

[worker_person]

Perhaps you could open a restaurant and pay people as much as they want to live a comfortable life. If you could do that and stay in business I would be most impressed.

[flerchin]

Won't be able to stay in business without workers. If workers cannot live comfortably on their wages, they'll choose another job that provides those wages.

[worker_person]

Funny. That's not how life works for most people.

Most people earn what they can, and live off it as best they can. If that means single bedroom apartment with 10 family members eating beans and rice, then that is what it is.

People on HN tend to be out of touch with how lower income people actually live.

[flerchin]

In my own life over the course of twenty years I went from: living in a tent with 3 others for a year, to a one bedroom apartment with a roommate in the living room, to an apartment with just my wife, to buying a house and starting a family, to then buying a house with a pool and sending my kids to decent schools.

The point is that rice and beans is temporary. As a worker, I continued to work towards better employment that provided the life I required. The vast majority of folks I knew along the way did the same. All 4 of the folks in that original tent with me are comfortably middle class nowadays.