[woodruffw]

> If they don’t reveal their methodology then how could this be used as evidence?

It isn't used as evidence; it's used to manufacture pretext to justify collecting "real" evidence. SpotShotter is not an ignorant party: they understand that the service they sell to police departments is a pretextual laundromat for busting up whoever the police feel did the crime.

That's the crux of this case: SpotShotter is being asked to produce evidence that they are compelled to produce, and they'd rather take the loss in this instance (and continue to use it for parallel construction) elsewhere.

[throwaway17_17]

In my experience you are 100% correct. This is also the potential use case for non-warrant based Ring/Nest video and audio along with smart speaker collected audio. I’m also certain this company and those like it are consistently looking for opportunities to advertise and sell the parallel construction utility of their services.

[zasdffaa]

What experience have you in this area? (genuine qtn)

[throwaway17_17]

I’m a lawyer who practices exclusively in criminal defense. In particular I’m a supervising attorney for a large public defender’s office and I’ve represented somewhere around 5,000 clients in my career.

[zasdffaa]

Lovely answer. May I politely suggest that you mention this stuff when next you post as it would be great to know there is real heft behind it and something HN'ers can rely on. There are too many unbacked opinions and gut-feelings around. But thanks.

[remflight]

Isn’t that fruit of the poison tree though?

[woodruffw]

That's where the parallel construction part applies: ShotSpotter lets the police do "vibes based" policing (to put it nicely), and then parallel construct their way backwards to a "legitimate" source of evidence.

(If I'm being pedantic, "fruit of the poisonous tree" usually refers to illegally obtained evidence, which ShotSpotter is technically not. It's purely a source of investigatory pretext.)

[feet]

Correct, it's usually the evidence obtained in the parallel construction phase that was illegally obtained

[hypersoar]

The exclusionary rule has been gutted over the decades. Police and prosecutors have long known how to work around it.