[intelVISA]

Always find it weird when people berate C++ tooling, Valgrind and adjacent friends are legitimately best in class and incredibly useful. Between RAII and a stack of robust static analyzers you'd have to deliberately write unsafe code these days.

[nicoburns]

That sounds great until you realise in other languages you get that by default without any tooling. And with better guarantees too (C++ static analysers aren’t foolproof).

Where C++ tooling really lacks is around library management and build tooling. The problem is less that any of the individual tools don’t work and more that there are many of them and they don’t interoperate nicely.

[bluGill]

What language that has anything like cachegrind which is the topic of this thread? Cache misuse is one of the largest causes of bad performance these days, and I can't think of any language that has anything built in for that.

Sure other languages have some nice tools to do garbage collection (so does C++, but it is optional, and reference counting does have drawbacks), but there are a lot more to tooling than just garbage collection. Even rust's memory model has places where it can't do what C++ can. (you can't use atomic to write data from two different threads at the same time)

No language has good tools around library and builds. So long as you stick to exactly one language with the build system of that language things seem nice. However in the real world we have a lot of languages, and a lot of libraries that already exist. Let me know what I can use any build/library tool with this library that builds with autotools, this other one from cmake, here is one with qmake (though at least qt is switching to cmake which is becoming the de-facto c++ standard), just to name a couple that handle dependencies in very different ways.

[njs12345]

> Even rust's memory model has places where it can't do what C++ can. (you can't use atomic to write data from two different threads at the same time)

Perhaps not in safe Rust, but can you provide an example of something Rust can't do that C++ can? It has the same memory model as C++20: https://doc.rust-lang.org/nomicon/atomics.html

[seoaeu]

You totally can in safe rust: https://doc.rust-lang.org/std/sync/atomic/struct.AtomicU64.h...

[njs12345]

The atomics themselves sure, but I guess often they'll be used as a barrier to protect an UnsafeCell or something, like in the implementation of Lazy<T>: https://docs.rs/lazy-init/0.5.0/src/lazy_init/lib.rs.html#85

[intelVISA]

To be fair as an outsider to both Rust and Js they seem to have pretty robust package management between cargo and npm, although npm is kinda cheating as collating scripts isn't quite as complex building binaries whereas PIP's absolutely unberable with all the virtual env stuff.

I've been quite lucky with CMake, after the initial learning period I've found everything "just works" as it is quite well supported by modern libs.

[bluGill]

Cargo and npm are very robust so long as you stick only to their respective ecosystems. However as soon as you need something from a different eco system they each become hard. The initial import into an ecosystem isn't hard, but the reimport after every update upstream is very annoying.