[ideamotor]

To a programmer every problem looks like a software problem. Information technology tends to free ride on public goods, essentially profiting from commons without contributing to them. That’s the feedback loop that is lacking. The negative externality, if you will, that should be brought in.

If, let’s say ubers and taxis paid a tax when they rode around without passengers and that tax specifically went to road upkeep and construction, that would close the gap. But this takes policy change, and engineers not only cannot independently make that fix in a democracy; they think they know better than democracy because they know how to program a car in a simulated road in abstraction.

So, not only is the focus often misplaced towards IT solutions, those IT solutions often accelerate the underlying problem. Whereas there are policy solutions but they require smart young politicians and just flat getting out the vote and encouraging optimism for progress through an imperfect but best available democratic system.

The amazingly fast capabilities of modern IT should not be unfairly compared to the more difficult democratic process; leading us to lose faith in the more equitable practice of democracy. Let’s be humble enough to know when we personally are not subject matter experts.

[juunpp]

This isn't just programmers trying to "solve" a "problem" though, although many are indeed very confused about what constitutes a problem, let alone a solution. There is (or was, at least, prior to covid and the various lay-offs) a huge amount of VC going into self-driving to "disrupt" the transportation system. In other words, the tech bros are hungry for more power and money.

[ideamotor]

Cheers for calling a spade a spade. I think you’ll agree neither is the whole picture. Engineers like to solve problems and nearly everyone wants the tools to solve problems which are power and money. My only hope is that people try to work on something that serves a social good while also getting paid well. I found it with renewable energy.

[juunpp]

Indeed, the problem is the lack of accountability of one coupled with the ingenuity of the other. Some might even go as far as believing that they are doing something positive when in reality they are blind.

Congratulations on balancing your career with social good; that has been the quandary of my life so far.

I also agree 200% on your statement about contributing to the commons, and pretending that the technology somehow "knows" better than democracy. These two irk me personally, just didn't otherwise have much to add.

[ideamotor]

Thanks, I feel at least possibly hypocritical right now because I’m at a turning point in my career so while I’m making these comments, I’m over here calculating that I could retire in x years versus 2.5*x years if I could manage to snag one of these big tech jobs (I have the skills at least).

It can be a challenge being one of, if not the only, programmer/etc at a more domain specific company (gotta hold your ground) - and working at an actual tech company would certainly tool me up for future startups/etc. Or … my cost of living would go up and I’d be forever on that wheel.

I’ve been lucky enough to now really have the option financially, but I do pride myself on when I really didn’t have the option I chose scraping by with barely any money over something not in renewables for years. It helped not having any dependents. And ultimately through some luck it made up for the grunt years. Except now I’m old and rambling on hacker news, so retiring sooner is appealing at the moment.

[lawrenceyan]

Pretty easy to complain in your ivory tower when these engineers are actually trying to do something to fix the problems you’re talking about.

[ideamotor]

My ivory tower? You are definitely going to have to be a lot more specific.

[lawrenceyan]

> But this takes policy change, and engineers not only cannot independently make that fix in a democracy; they think they know better than democracy because they know how to program a car in a simulated road in abstraction.

That came off as abrasive, I apologize. I think the point I'm trying to make is that instead of denigrating engineers trying their best to solve problems, which in my opinion, is largely negative sum / leads to stagnation, we should be cultivating positive sum thinking.

Doing something is always better than doing nothing.

[ideamotor]

I agree insofar that the engineering solutions are not designed to diminish commons or otherwise add to the problem. Also, I find my criticism analogous to yours in that my other main point is how engineers promote their solutions as alternatives to a “broken” system, and this pessimism is negative sum thinking which is highly destructive politically. Finally, I’m an engineer who works on these problems in ways that meet these criteria; not an academic or policy maker.