[mads_ravn]

Then we fundamentally disagree in how human psychology works: I believe that if authorities (be they government officials, parents or others) habitually lie and cheat, then that behavior becomes socially sanctioned as a way to get ahead. Thus you end up with more “shitty people” (and a worse society)

[gdy]

And by the way, when you hear Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen say 'The United States will impose harsh consequences on countries that break the international economic order' and then ironically blaming Russia instead of her own country [0], do you feel how society becomes a little bit worse?

[0] https://www.reuters.com/world/us/yellen-says-us-will-impose-...

[mads_ravn]

Hmm, I fail to see how this is even remotely comparable to Russian propaganda/related to the topic at hand, but I’ll give you that the “West” has also behaved atrociously in the past. Though please be aware, that arguments like the one you are trying to make, has a distinct feeling of whataboutism.

[gdy]

"I fail to see how this is even remotely comparable to Russian propaganda/related to the topic at hand"

Ehh, perfectly/directly?

I gave you a fine example of "denying responsibility and lying" which should have corrupting influence on the recipients. I wonder if you notice this influence.

"whataboutism"

Any mention of this word has a distinct feeling of double standards.

[gdy]

No argument here, but my point is that if you believe lies and don't notice that you are being cheated, it doesn't corrupt you.

[mads_ravn]

Again, I don’t think we are going to end up agreeing as I believe that a significant portion of the Russian people are aware, that they are being lied to, but are to scared to do anything about this.

Please also note, that I don’t believe this applied to all Russians. The few I’ve interacted with more closely have been nice (the opposite of “shitty”)

[gdy]

"a significant portion of the Russian people are aware, that they are being lied to, but are to scared to do anything about this"

Well, some of them must be trying to rationalize and normalize what's happening to reduce psychological suffering, but calling them bad on these grounds has a distinct feeling of blaming the victim.