[bowsamic]

Almost any other western country other than the US and Switzerland will massively pull down the average. Especially in the US salaries are extremely inflated. I know academics in physics who are effectively chained to the US because they are so used to the huge amount of money. In Germany for example you cannot expect to make more than 70k euro max, probably more like 50-55k euro a year even as a senior software engineer. I don't think a lot of americans appreciate how vastly inflated american wages are

[roguas]

Ok, having recently worked in Germany its a bit overexaggerated. I think now, senior engineers can be reaching 80-110k quite easily. Secondly, american wages are not inflated but are high due to original demand being in US.

[bowsamic]

Where did you work in Germany? I've never heard of a 100k wage. My wife is a senior design engineer and she makes 55k in Hamburg

[housingisaright]

Salaries in the eu is most def. Lower than us, but earning 100k with a couple years experience is pretty common in London/Berlin/Scandinavia etc.

Biggest difference is that not a lot of people are earning 200k+ salaries in eu.

[bowsamic]

100k in Berlin is pretty extreme, Scandinavia and London I can see it more. I live in Hamburg and 100k is basically unheard of.

[badpun]

In Europe, good money is in contracting. For senior devs, salaried jobs are for people who for some reason won't switch to contracts (e.g. they're immigrants and need a full time job for visa purposes)

[wiseowise]

> Especially in the US salaries are extremely inflated.

Funny way to spell "fairly compensated".

[bowsamic]

I didn't spell it wrong, you are suggesting a different idea. Own up to it rather than using a lame linguistic deflection tactic.

It is beyond fair compensation, because the standard of living is fine in Europe, even though I know a lot of americans think we live in squalor. The pay in the US is beyond what can possibly be expected in other developed countries.

[throwaway675309]

You'd be singing a different tune if you were a US citizen with our complete lack of socialized safety net, inadequate health care system, etc etc.

I'm sorry as a non-US citizen that you're so poorly compensated, but clearly the market and corporations can afford to pay much better than they do in Europe.

[adventured]

> our complete lack of socialized safety net

The US spends a larger share of its GDP on its social safety net than Canada does.

What you're confused about is the difference between what a nation spends and what it gets for that spending. The US doesn't lack a social safety net, it has exceptionally incompetent government systems at the state and federal level while simultaneously spending a very large sum on its mediocre social safety net. US Government systems spend like European welfare states and the US doesn't get the same results from that spending.

If the poorest 1/4 of the population being covered by wildly expensive (for the taxpayer), free healthcare isn't part of a social safety net, then what qualifies exactly?

EBT (free food for the poor, aka food stamps) and Housing First are two other prominent social safety net programs. The US spends an enormous amount of money on EBT ($111b just at the federal level for 2021). The US housing first program was so successful it brought the US homelessness rate down to approximately where France and Canada are at.

Social Security and Medicare are social safety net programs, and the two largest by cost in world history. Neither program pays for itself properly, it's subsidized by taxpayers (and more so by the day).

[csomar]

The US also has a large incompetent population, compared to Europe. Europe only recently got a huge surge of under-skilled refugees, and this should weigh down on the system (some countries like Italy/Spain are already near bankruptcy).

The US also spends a lot on its military, which is part of the social safety net. Europe ignored military for other expenses and is now paying heavily for it.

That being said, the US does not make good use of its resources. But it's a much harder problem that you'd expect.

[bowsamic]

Do you think I’m defending the lack of compensation?

[ecshafer]

If I as an Engineer bring in $1M to the company in a year, and I make $50k a year. Where did that other $950k go? Sure there is some overhead: taxes, hr, accounting, management, etc. But the fact is that in the US engineers are currently just getting more of the share of value that their labor created. European developers should be fighting tooth and nail to get more.

[boredtofears]

How do you quantify that $1M? What about the product manager, designer, and QA person that were involved in the features you coded? What about the account manager and customer support rep that will now need to provide on-going support for your code?

[roguas]

You are thinking about market incorrectly. Thinking you have created 1M value for the company is a bit silly. Your work has this value only within context of that company, otherwise just take it away and enjoy the profits.

[bowsamic]

You are describing Marxism, but we live in a capitalist society, where it is seen as okay for companies to make a profit. Also, this is basically just victim blaming. I’m not saying it’s right that highly skilled people are paid so much less outside of the US, I’m simply pointing it out, because a lot of people don’t realise it. There are a lot of Americans who move to Europe and are shocked at how little they are compensated. Americans should be aware of this before moving, and so they can also get a global picture of wages

[akudha]

How is it fair to only compare raw salary numbers? There is nearly zero safety net in the U.S. Two weeks paid leave at best, you're expected to work long hours, healthcare is a mess... Compared to Western Europe, where there is affordable healthcare, saner labor practices etc.

[drstewart]

These benefits in Europe are grossly inflated though

[bowsamic]

1. That totally depends on the country. The social safety net in the UK is not great for example, and the NHS is barely functional

2. Social safety net isn’t required for a tech worker who makes such huge amounts, and their cost of living is not greater enough to make up the difference