[bee_rider]

I expected to see better performance from the bus, but it is surprisingly poor:

https://ourworldindata.org/travel-carbon-footprint

Haven't dug into their sources, but I assume this is because buses often run with low utilization. Anyway the answer is trains, the answer is always trains in public transit.

[rootusrootus]

Trains are a tough sell, at least in the western US. So much wide open space, trains are slow, high speed trains too expensive to justify given the sparse population.

I remember once doing the math and finding that there are many times when our local light rail is less efficient than just putting four people in a sedan. When the train is full, though, it's unbeatable.

EVs throw another wrench into that math since they're so much more efficient than ICEVs.

[gernb]

The sparse population argument seems kind of BS

Switzerland has a low population and is covered in trains

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32180236

[a4a4a4a4]

> sparse population

> low population

These are not the same thing. Switzerland has a pretty dense population. The section with low population is the Alps, where you're not going to put trains anyway.

https://www.atlas.bfs.admin.ch/maps/13/de/12614_75_3501_70/2...

Most people that live in remote areas have cars anyway, since sometimes busses only run twice a day. It's a tricky problem to measure "access to public transit".

(The BFS is an amazing source for information, they publish all kinds of statistics)

[gernb]

Switzerland has a similar number of people the bay area, 7-8 million, and is twice as large. So it stands to reason the bay area could have a system as large, useful, and as efficient as Switzerland if not better given it has the amount of same people in a smaller less mountainous area.

[kortilla]

You just confused the Bay Area with “the western US”.

[gernb]

How so?

Population Bay Area 7.7 million

https://www.google.com/search?q=population+bay+area

Population of Switzerland: 8.6 million

https://www.google.com/search?q=population+of+swizterland

Size of Bay Area: 6900sq miles

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_and_towns_in_th...

Size of Switzerland: 15940sq miles

https://www.google.com/search?q=size+of+swizterland

[bee_rider]

Not to mention, eventually the whole grid should be mostly renewable rendering questions of efficiency more-or-less moot.