[Pmop]

I live close and know people who livelihoods depends on that forest. Believe it or not, it's not the farmers or loggers fault. Their livelihoods depends on that forest. Farmers depend on the rain cycle. Loggers depend on the forest staying healthy, so new trees grow so they can keep their business going. Illegal logging does happen but it isn't their fault exclusively either.

The root cause is illegal occupation and settlement of land. People invade other people's land, often federal land, they cut down all of the trees, they burn it down, so they can clear it to set up makeshift camps. They then split and sell the land. Once there are people living on it, it's pretty much a lost cause due to how loosely enforced private ownership of land is, specially federal land. Also, it's a lucrative business, and involves corruption in all levels. People affected by it, like loggers who lose their property and livelihoods can hardly do anything, since the invaders will often get violent and the State wont do anything.

[guilherme-puida]

I really want to see some sources to those claims.

Illegal farmers and loggers have no interest in preserving the forest. They can just completely destroy some area, then move around to another one and start it all over again. Even farmers don't want to spend too much time in the same place if they can help it, the soil in the Amazon isn't that good for farming after a few harvests.

[Wertigoyr]

There are plenty of satellite picture showing deforestation without people living on it.

Any further sources?

[anigbrowl]

that seems like a situation where one should fight fire with fire.

[spywaregorilla]

Just to be clear, you're advocating for setting fire to people's homes?

[anigbrowl]

No, I'm advocating maintaining tactical parity. 'fight fire with a fire' is a fairly common metaphor for reciprocal action.

[spywaregorilla]

But the initial action was literally fire

[anigbrowl]

That was one action mentioned, but I think you're being over-literal here - I said tactical parity, not mirroring every action.

Essentially I am saying that people abandoned by the state should consider taking the defense of land back into their own hands when they experience violence, as was summarized here:

People affected by it, like loggers who lose their property and livelihoods can hardly do anything, since the invaders will often get violent and the State wont do anything.

[spywaregorilla]

So you said fight fire with fire to mean fight fire with something that isn't fire.