[pdimitar]

Or the "complainers" work with Rust and Elixir and giggle at Python's last-century dependency-management woes, while they run a command or two and can upgrade and/or pin their dependencies and put that in version control and have builds identical [to those on their dev machines] in their CI/CD environment.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Your comment hints that you are feeling personally attacked when Python is criticized. Friendly unsolicited advice: don't do that, it's not healthy for you.

Python is a relic. Its popularity and integration with super-strong C/C++ libraries has been carrying it for at least the last 5 years, if not 10. There's no mystery: it's a network effect. Quality is irrelevant when something is popular.

And yes I used Python. Hated it every time. I guess I have to thank Python for learning bash scripting well. I still ended up wasting less time.

[Zopieux]

It's a bit ironic to pick someone's up on "taking things personally upon criticism", then proceeding to display a deep, manichean, unfounded hatered for a language that, despite its numerous flaws, remains a popular and useful tool.

[pdimitar]

Hanging people upon dawn was popular as well; people even got their kids for the event and it was happening regularly. Popularity says nothing about quality or even viability.

Use Python if it's useful for you, obviously. To me though the writing is on the wall -- it's on its loooong and painful (due to people being in denial) way out.

EDIT: I don't "hate"; it was a figure of speech. Our work has no place for such emotions. I simply get "sick of" (read: become weary of) something being preached as good when it clearly is not, at least in purely technical terms. And the "hate" is not at all unfounded. Choosing to ignore what doesn't conform to your view is not an argument.

[korijn]

> Your comment hints that you are feeling personally attacked when Python is criticized.

I am not feeling personally attacked (I am not married to Python), I am mostly just tired of reading the same unproductive type of complaints over and over again. This attitude is not unique to Python's situation, but actually is typical to our industry. It makes me want to find a different job, on some days.

The community is trying to improve the situation but there is no way to erase Python's history. So it's always going to continue to look messy if you keep looking back. The complaint is unproductive, or in other words, not constructive.

[pdimitar]

I can agree with your comment. What's missing is the possibility to, you know, just jump ship.

You might not be married to Python but it sure looks that way for many others. I switched main languages no less than 4 times in my career and each time it was an objective improvement.

The thing that kind of makes me look down on other programmers is them refusing to move on.

[korijn]

For nuance and to address your point, I have worked with PHP for about six years, .NET for five, C++ for two, and Python for seven.

I still dabble in all of them. Who knows when I will move on to the next. Rust looks nice. I tried go.

But they do not yet provide any of the tools/libraries I need for my work. That's how I've always selected my programming language.

So I would first need to invent the universe before I can create valuable things. Instead I will just wait until their ecosystems mature a little more.

I will end the discussion here though. Thanks for the response!

[pdimitar]

That's a valid reason to hold on. Thanks for indulging the discussion!