[a_c]

On self driving car, I think we are solving all the problems caused by cars like air pollution and congestion with "better" car. First we have electric car, then we (will) have electric self driving car.

Public transport seems boring enough that no one talks about. Is there anything foundamentally wrong with buses and trains (and bike too) compared with cars? While we moved pass the faster horse era, we are now searching for better cars.

[lazide]

Once public transit is at the frequency of Tokyo trains and familiarity of the back of your hand, it’s often a no brainer.

The problem is, until it hits that point it involves a LOT of planning and conforming to other peoples schedules.

Which for many people (parents, folks going to and from a lot of different places) can dramatically decrease their ability to actually exist or do what they normally do.

If it’s in an environment where cars suck to drive/park/etc. (dense urban environments), then it quickly goes to public transit.

But especially in the US, density is low, cars are easier than the alternative unless someone spends several trillions at least on some giant initiative (which they won’t). So for most of the (physical) US, public transit makes no sense.

There are areas on the border (SF Bay Area, a lot of outlying Seattle Metro, etc), and in those cases both options suck.

[dublinben]

The real EV transportation revolution isn't electrifying cars, but micromobility like electric bikes, scooters, skateboards, etc. The fundamental inefficiency of trying to move a single person using two tons of machinery can never beat human scale transportation.

This doesn't even get into the enormous throughput efficiency that proper transit can deliver over longer distances.

[lazide]

Which works fine when you’re not trying to get through 6 inches of slush, 100+ F temps, or dealing with daily monsoon rains.

Which almost every part of the county except SF (pretty much) has to deal with some combination of regularly.

In a dense urban environment? Sure maybe, as long as the sidewalks and streets aren’t packed.

[colechristensen]

>Is there anything foundamentally wrong with buses and trains

It's slower, a round trip I could make in 30 minutes in a car would take careful scheduling and two hours on a bus. Sometimes it's cold outside and I'd have to walk half a mile to and from a bus stop. The local transit authority is experimenting with reducing the number of light rail cars so they'll be better covered by transit police in cars because violence is a problem. Once on BART I'm convinced somebody shit in a paper bag and left it in the middle of the car. Caltrain in rush hour would be a violation of the Geneva Convention if you made prisoners stand in such a cramped and unstable train for an hour at a time. I keep hearing about people getting stabbed by the local bus stop, 45 minutes after a friend visiting me came through the last time. A couple of months ago a dude died in the hospital after getting stabbed on a bus three blocks away from my apartment in a dispute over who got a cigarette left on the floor of the bus.

I calculated total cost of ownership of my car and it was considerably less than taking public transit unless I used public transit a lot, and any savings would be completely blown away by using Uber for just a couple of trips a month.

There are situations where public transit is a good thing, but it's generally a dirty, crime-infested, unpleasant experience in America only good for people who are really excited about not having a car. I'm opposed to any measures that force public transit on people by making car ownership more difficult until after they make public transit a safe, convenient, comfortable experience.

[Panzer04]

The way to make PT work is for it to be faster than cars. People should choose it because it’s faster/cheaper/more convenient, not because they have no alternative.

You’ll find this is typically the case in large cities that prioritise it appropriately - Between spending an hour in a car or on a train I’d choose the train every time.

[com2kid]

> It's slower, a round trip I could make in 30 minutes in a car would take careful scheduling and two hours on a bus.

That isn't a fundamental problem with buses, that is a problem with your local implementation.

A proper mass transit system gets to avoid all or most street traffic, including signaling and such.

Traveling through the streets of a city, you are lucky if your average speed hits 15mph. Mass transit can easily beat that if implemented well.

[mixmastamyk]

The problem here is your dysfunctional city, and has little to do with trains. I hear you however, mine is too.

[spc476]

In my area (southeast Florida), trains: not enough rail. Both trains and buses: not often enough. Buses: not enough routes, too many transfers (from experience, what would take 20 minutes by car took 1.5 hours by bus). Bikes: even though we have bike lanes, we get drivers from everywhere (tourist destination) and I wouldn't want to risk my life.

[galdosdi]

1) Public transport works today. True self driving is an unknown amount of time away, and IMHO it is a foolish mistake to assume it is definitely very soon or definitely very long before it works. It could be a year away or decades.

2) Even with self driving, there would be some efficiency gains from a bus, especially in places dense enough that there just isn't space for a car per person, like Manhattan. It would take adding something like 50 lanes of highway across the Hudson River to replace the capacity that trains currently provide for people to enter Manhattan from the mainland, IIRC. Neither electricity nor self driving in any way reduce the amount of space a car takes up. In fact self driving increases traffic by making it easier to go for a drive -- perhaps even send a car out for a 0 passenger cargo pickup trip.

Public transit is here to stay.

[oogabooga13]

I can agree with your general time scales on self driving. Just today in SF I watched firsthand a "Cruise" self driving car completely wig out when faced with a double parked car (pointed in the same direction as the "Cruise") and oncoming traffic on the opposite side of the street.

When it decided to make its manuever (on coming traffic briefly stopped to allow the car to drive around the double parked vehicle) the car made erratic micro turns and short hard braking action (pushing the nose of the car down) once it entered the (stopped) on coming traffic lane. The occupants were definitely thrashed around a bit.

The attempt was not pretty and definitely not even close to human level proficeny.

A typical manuever one has to make these days in the Bay with street parking eliminated in many busy restaurant / cafe corridors.

[bluGill]

I talk about public transit. I hate driving even though I do a lot of it (well not now that I work from home)

Transit can be great, but most of it is so bad nobody sane would use it. Why would you risk waiting for a bus that only comes twice an hour when your car is sitting in your driveway waiting for you? Why would you take a bus when you can walk almost as fast?

Both of those are very real problems that most transit has, and most people just ignore it.