[atonse]

This is what I say when people call Musk a showman and a fraud.

I say that I must be imagining that I’ve actually been driving an EV for the past four years.

I must’ve dreamt having to drive only 2 hours out of a 12 hour road trip.

Bugs? Yea. Some really dangerous ones we all have read about. Manufacturing defects? Yup! Missed Deadlines? Hell yeah.

But a fraud? Nope.

[TheAlchemist]

You have a point.

But did Theranos customers were thinking they were a fraud ? Nope - they were getting their blood test results done, although not in a way Theranos advertised.

Of course the Tesla cars are not a fraud - they are actually pretty good - and for a long time they were the only EV out there. But it's no longer a case, and they are just becoming one of the 50 EV car makers out there.

And Elon seems to know it - that's why he's insisting that the entire company insane valuation is tied to FSD, or whatever other futuristic product he can imagine.

What I mean is that it's a fraud because it's an (maybe a bit above) average EV car making company, but it's CEO and the company itself insists it has extremely advance technology and products - which for now, doesn't exist. As a result, it's $ valuation is higher than most other car makers combined.

[atonse]

While I wouldn’t just naively say Musk is 100% innocent, most of these examples are cases of really bad estimation.

Nobody would care about the slipped FSD timelines if they hadn’t paid for it. Tesla’s mistake was charging for it.

I chose not to pay for it since I knew his estimates were rubbish. But most don’t. Doesn’t mean It’s fraud. They have been working on it. And you can see it in people’s cars.

[lazyjones]

> Nobody would care about the slipped FSD timelines if they hadn’t paid for it. Tesla’s mistake was charging for it.

I paid for it (€2500 or 3000 I don't remember) and I'm not stressed. I have the world's best "autopilot" (EAP) already in my 5 years old car and it's getting better and better.

Other vendors would have sold me a parking heater at that price (or higher).

[lazyjones]

> and they are just becoming one of the 50 EV car makers out there.

The Model Y was recently the best-selling car regardless of technology (i.e. overall best-selling passenger car) in several countries. Most notably, last month in China.