[eliseumds]

In emerging markets, hybrids are a much smarter choice. Here in Brazil there are few fast chargers (say 40kW+), and a great bunch of them are broken anyway. My next car will be a plug-in hybrid. Maybe an electric in 10 years.

[moffkalast]

Indeed the infrastructure's just not there yet in most places, and not just Brazil, it sucks basically everywhere.

PHEVs can be charged at home and should have enough battery range for those short daily errands across town, while having the range of a normal ICE car for long trips where the lack of fast chargers is most critical. Plus they'll break down more due to higher complexity and the repair shops will love and lobby for them so win-win-win.

[brianwawok]

Yuck oil changes plus battery wear. PHEVs are the best of both worlds, I would recommend them last (after EV and then basic ICE)

[jader201]

Did you mean “worst” of both worlds?

[Dylan16807]

Plug-in hybrids and EVs cost less to maintain and repair, finds Consumer Reports

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1129728_plug-in-hybrids...

[moffkalast]

EVs are indubitably miles ahead in terms of being simple to maintain mechanically since it's a sealed fixed gear system (the software is another matter, but let's disregard that for now), but I don't believe those numbers for the PHEV for a second.

You're maintaining both an EV and an ICE at the same time in one car with both needing to interface with each other in complex ways. There's bound to be in the range of 4x as much that can go wrong compared to just one or the other. You'll have the mechanical issues of the ICE coupled with the software problems of an EV.

It's an absolutely stupid idea to even consider doing these sort of overcomplicated hybrids, but unfortunately it's also the only way to get around the abysmal battery capacity we currently have.

[gambiting]

>> but I don't believe those numbers for the PHEV for a second.

Having driven a PHEV for over 2 years now, I can easily believe them - the main ICE runs so rarely, it's practically brand new. I cover like 90% of my journeys in EV mode alone. I've just done my second service and the brake pads are like 5% worn - after 20kk miles, in a 2.2 tonne SUV. All because of regenerative breaking - it's absolutely remarkable. So yes, I imagine repairs of this car will be cheaper long term, not more expensive - the ICE drive train is going to have fewer problem if you just don't use it half as much.

[Dylan16807]

> You're maintaining both an EV and an ICE at the same time in one car with both needing to interface with each other in complex ways.

The interface does not need to be complex. Hooking them directly together is simple enough. Some designs replace parts of the gearbox with the motors, making the combination simpler than the sum of its parts. And if you have a fully electric drivetrain then you can vastly simplify the ICE.

(Also I don't know how you could possibly reach 4x even if it was as complex as you're saying!)

[ericd]

You don’t really need fast chargers if your overnight spot has any charging. Ours has been charged almost exclusively on a standard US 120V 15A household outlet - 5 miles/hr of range, but it’s parked for >14 hours a day, so it regains 70+ miles overnight.

[eliseumds]

I don't really need the car on a daily basis, mostly for road trips, and, like the US, Brazil has continental proportions (we think in thousands of kms). The BMW iX is very impressive, there are videos of it doing Sao Paulo > Rio, and half of the way back, without a charge, which is amazing, but that's a best-case path with a considerable number of chargers. Still very pricey though.

[moffkalast]

Bold of you to assume you won't run out of capacity half a day into your trip lol. At least that's what my calculations usually show.

[ericd]

Oh well yeah, for road trips it’s different. But for day to day, 70 miles of charging (on a 300 mile range battery) is enough to keep it so it’s usually topped up, and after a longer day trip where it’s not enough, it’ll get back to full over a few days.

[twblalock]

It sounds like a normal hybrid is a better idea if the charging infrastructure is bad. A normal hybrid would be cheaper and never needs to be plugged in.

[adgjlsfhk1]

plug in is a pure improvement. if you have 20 mile range that you can charge at home, then you will be doing the majority of your driving in electric.

[twblalock]

If you can charge at home you’d get an EV most of the time, not a slow hybrid.

[fomine3]

If you can't charge at home, PHEV is completely nonsense, or say waste of battery compared to HEV. PHEV should be for who can charge at home, drives daily, and want long trips with quick gas charge.

[adgjlsfhk1]

Even if you can't charge at home, PHEV is still worth it over HEV because it will increase resale value, and because you may be able to charge somewhere in the future (eg work, or different home). The cost of the plug is negligible, so making an HEV that can't plug in is just a waste.

[fomine3]

PHEV for future proof is good point. Simple plug cost could be minor, but HEVs have small battery (and don't use fully for long life) so just adding plug is almost useless. Who wants only 5km EV range?

[saalweachter]

You can charge a Volt overnight on a 120V outlet.