Hacker News new | ask | show | jobs
by riebschlager 1432 days ago
There are plenty of post-internet myths that are humming along just fine. :D

It's a crazy phenomenon to watch play out.

3 comments

Pre-internet, it was harder to debunk myths but also harder to spread them. Nowadays, it’s easier to debunk myths but also much easier to spread them. These do not necessarily cancel out; as they say, “the amount of energy needed to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude larger than to produce it.”

As an extreme example, pre-internet, a conspiracy theory-inclined person might randomly run across a handful of full-blown conspiracy theorists in his day-to-day life. This makes it easier for him to question his leanings, since he only observes a small minority of people going all-in on the conspiracy theory. Nowadays, a conspiracy-inclined person can easily find online communities comprising all other full-blown conspiracy theorists everywhere the world. This quickly reinforces his belief in the conspiracy, since he sees an apparent majority of people in this online community believing the myth.

Moreover, now it's now easy for adherents to some myths to find each other on the internet. IMO this is not a good tradeoff.
Also feels like they are more common on mainstream-ish TV.
I honestly think it's easy to get secondary sources now, but it's still hard to get primary sources. If people have different views of preventing covid they're arguing over different news articles. They aren't arguing about specific studies that they have easy access to.
Hard agree. It's very easy to find people who agree with whatever your particular brand of crazy is. And it does not help that online people can say things they would never say face to face.
Absolutely true, but there somehow seems different quality to them. The myths of old seemed to be little factoids that were not easy to verify and were taken at face value, then just spread until they became "common knowledge". The new ones seem to have an almost religious quality to them. Flat-earthers for example, if someone told me 25 years ago that this would be a thing I would have just laughed.
> if someone told me 25 years ago that this would be a thing I would have just laughed.

Wikipedia says

    In the modern era, the pseudoscientific belief in a flat Earth originated with the English writer Samuel Rowbotham with the 1849 pamphlet Zetetic Astronomy.
    In 1956, Samuel Shenton set up the International Flat Earth Research Society (IFERS), better known as the "Flat Earth Society" from Dover, England, as a direct descendant of the Universal Zetetic Society.
so flat earth has been around for 170 years. And people did laugh at them:

    The term flat-earth-man, used in a derogatory sense to mean anyone who holds ridiculously antiquated or impossible views, predates the more compact flat-earther. It was recorded in 1908: "Fewer votes than one would have thought possible for any human candidate, were he even a flat-earth-man."
A "modern" conspiracy might be the Sandy Hook, Pizza-gate, etc. but those originate with Alex Jones so not a general example. Maybe "the moon landings were faked" is a good example?
I don't doubt that the belief has always existed somewhere; tribes with barely any outside contact, for example. I suspected that the belief was once reserved for a few eccentric crackpots and didn't have the momentum to be a movement until the last decade or so, but maybe I'm wrong. Flat-earth theory probably wasn't the greatest example. I think a "myth" connotes something a bit more innocent than a delusional belief or conspiratorial thinking (I'd call the Loch Ness Monster an myth, but I'd call the "moon-landing was faked" a conspiracy).
Oh my gosh, there are tons of them. My mother-in-law ensures I hear about them all, passionately, each time she visits.

Bill and Melinda Gates are cyborgs whose bodies have been replaced. They're trying to track everyone with vaccine microchips. (There were variations on this theme including 5G)

Michelle Obama is a man.

9/11 buildings were vaporized by a high-powered, government laser.

Chemtrails are full of heavy metal and are being used to control our minds.

Putting hydrogen peroxide in your ear can cure all sorts of things, including cancer and cystic fibrosis.

"The Jews" are disproportionately represented in the government and media and are behind the whole woke movement to punish white people.

Any number of things about George Soros and ANTIFA.

The moon landing was faked.

The list goes on and on. Every time it's something even more crazy than the last.

Alex Jones isn't real and the man who plays him is part of a massive conspiracy inside the deep state.
That's true but only a few of us know and it is better like that.
Flat-earth is a conspiracy theory, flat-earthers are told that the earth is round, but they don't believe it, they usually also believe in all sorts of other theories: fake moon landing, chemtrails, covid 5G, aliens, etc... make your choice. Conspiracy theories went strong even before the internet, some had devastating consequence. At least, flat-earth is harmless, it only makes you sound stupid.

And I also believe that there are not that many "true" flat earthers. There is a significant amount of trolls and people who like the exercise in epistemology.

I think the reason flat earth get so much visibility is that it is one the most obviously wrong belief there is, people like to point out dumb people in order to feel smart by comparison. In fact, the meme is not the idea that the earth is flat, it is that there are people out there who believe the earth is flat. It is almost a meta-myth, I mean, what proof do you have that flat earth as a community is a thing? I know there is rather good evidence that it is the case but who bothered to check?

Flat earth is not harmless. Like many conspiracy theories, it posits an "evil controlling organization" that for some reason (usually to hide god?) is able to direct the entirety of the earth towards its goals.

These kind of conspiracy theories, if you are willing to keep asking questions, almost always blame "The Jews". People pushing these conspiracy theories are, whether they understand it or not, pushing the ideas that 1: You have zero control over your government and cannot gain any control, 2: Science isn't the goal of many science institutions, and instead they are merely mouthpieces for this global cabal, 3: This global cabal even has the power of fooling your own senses, like many of these believers would not be swayed if you put them on a rocket and let them see the earth from space. These people are prone to dismissing strong evidence with hand wavey excuses like "oh virtual reality" or similar.

I would argue the point of these is to push 1: voter apathy and general detachment from the ways society can be changed and improved through their effort, 2: anti-science and anti-intellectualism sentiments, 3: "You can't trust anyone but us", 4: "The Jews" bullshit

> There are plenty of post-internet myths that are humming along just fine. :D

Like bielefeld existing?