[dleslie]

Because that doesn't use the GCC frontend interface, requiring build tools and embedded toolchains to be modified to understand the rust compiler interface. By using GCC it's just another language that the existing toolchain can understand.

[maxwell86]

The Rust module system is radically different from C and C++ and other similar languages in the embedded space.

Every build system that has added support for Rust, which aren't many, had to be radically modified to achieve that.

None of these supports the GCC Rust frontend, but all of them support the Rust frontend.

So if you actually wanted to build any >100 LOC Rust project for embedded targets not supported by LLVM, doing it with the Rust frontend is as easy as just running 1 CLI command to pick its GCC backend.

Doing it with the GCC frontend, would require you to either port one of the build systems to support it, or... give the GCC frontend a CLI API that's 100% compatible with the Rust frontend.

[dleslie]

Cargo support for gccrs is part of this project:

https://github.com/Rust-GCC/cargo-gccrs

Moreover, modules are less interesting to me in embedded development, for which I'm interested in access to Rust's borrow checker for gaining certainty of small portions of larger projects, which are written in other languages.

[nickitolas]

So it's not about platform support, but about toolchain integration? Who benefits from that, projects using C/C++ who want to use a rust library? Or is it about distro package maintainers?

[dleslie]

The toolchains support helps embedded developers, mainly. For example, Xtensa and AVR toolchains are generally byzantine monstrosities of makefiles, Python, dialog, etc; so having them be given a low effort means to consume rust is a boon. Ideally, rust is just another source file in the srcdir soup.

That said, gcc supports more platforms than llvm; including esoteric and unpopular desktop configurations.

Personally, I plan to drop this into marsdev as soon as it releases. Writing 32X games in rust sounds like silly fun.

[steveklabnik]

Incidentally, Xtensa has hired someone for the last… year or so? To make using Rust on their stuff work well.

AVR support is almost there in mainline rustc but has a codegen bug or two, last I heard.

[zRedShift]

I think you meant Espressif, Steve. They have a fork of LLVM with Xtensa support they’re looking to upstream (still a few things missing, like the DSP/AI instructions in ESP32-S3, and I think the codegen is better on GCC for now). And the folks at esp-rs who work at ESP and outside contributors maintain a Rust toolchain and standard library (based on ESP-IDF) which they also want to upstream. There’s also a baremetal target which has a dedicated developer in ESP, it’s pretty amazing. Although esp32-s3 is going to be the last Xtensa chip from them, they’re planning on moving to RISC V, wholesale, with all their products in the last year based on it. Ferrous Systems even designed a Rust specific devkit based on their RISC V esp32-c3, to teach embedded Rust on.

I bet Cadence was ripping them off for the IP, which is a shame…

Any talks in Oxide about porting Hubris to RISC V? I hear getting your hands on Cortex-M*s in bulk is still pretty challenging these days.

[steveklabnik]

Ahh whoops you’re right, lol. Embarrassing.

Hubris was designed to be easy to port to RISC-V, so yes! We didn’t end up doing that though. Someone else did though! https://github.com/oxidecomputer/hubris/discussions/365