[toolz]

crypto isn't unregulated by any stretch of the imagination. If you steal someones crypto that's illegal just as if you stole someones hot new kids toy that is in a relatively unregulated market.

If we're using ponzi scheme definition loosely enough to label most of the "scams" of crypto as a ponzi scheme, then literally the entire stock market is a ponzi scheme - how else would you pay investors more if you weren't making money off of new investors paying more for the exact same stock?

Are there a metric ton of scams in crypto? Sure, same for stocks - just look at penny stock pump n dumps. They're everywhere. Regulation didn't stop them or maybe even reduce them. The solution to this is to only buy into companies or crypto that have serious missions with serious investors and to stop pretending the gamblers losing money on penny stocks or small-cap crypto are victims. They aren't victims any more than the government sponsored casino/lottery users are victims. Which, maybe those people are victims, but society has accepted that as legitimate, so why would we put unbalanced expectations on crypto when society has deemed these other, quite equivalent forms of gambling as legit?

[hnthrow1010]

>then literally the entire stock market is a ponzi scheme - how else would you pay investors more if you weren't making money off of new investors paying more for the exact same stock?

No, this is very wrong and is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of stocks that seems to be going around in crypto circles. The stockholders make money from the actual, real profits of the company, either through dividends or buybacks. The entirety of crypto is like if everything were an unregulated penny stock in a company that openly announces they have no profits and they have no plan to ever make profits.

[toolz]

> real profits of the company, either through dividends or buybacks.

The majority of my profits in the stock market have been through asset appreciation. Just take S&P500, a very widely invested in fund - the average dividend yield is 4% while the average return is 12% - which means for that very common stock the majority of the profit came from appreciation.

This doesn't address buybacks, which is a pointless variable as buybacks are nothing more than "new investments" coming in to buy the exact same stock at a different price.

[hnthrow1010]

>which means for that very common stock the majority of the profit came from appreciation.

And you can see from the last few months how that's still an inherently risky attitude towards investing. I agree, buybacks are also a questionable scheme that can easily get used to scam, but at least those are (in theory) based on real profits. You're betting that the company is going to grow and create more valuable products and services in the future. In crypto, there's no profits and no value whatsoever. The average dividend yield of a crypto investor is always going to be 0%. You're not betting on anything besides the ability to dump the thing off on someone else.

[mitchdoogle]

Many stocks don't have dividends - what about those ones? Are they Ponzi schemes? There are a ton of companies with stock values much higher than you'd expect based on their business performance - are those stocks Ponzi schemes?

No they're not. Neither is Crypto, and that's the only point that's being made here. If that seems controversial or incorrect to you, then I think you have some emotional hangup about crypto