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by bergenty 1433 days ago
Lawns are less important. We would have no agricultural output if we didn’t weed.
1 comments

Farming existed before weed killing. It's extremely useful but output doesn't drop to zero without it.
> Farming existed before weed killing.

Weed killing has been integral to farming since it's inception.^1 Chemical herbicides were popularized in the 19th century, which necessarily coincided with the modern population explosion.

^1 https://ucanr.edu/blogs/blogcore/postdetail.cfm?postnum=1759....

“The earliest evidence of small-scale cultivation of edible grasses is from around 21,000 BC with the Ohalo II people on the shores of the Sea of Galilee.”

“The earliest known weed control technology in 8000 BCE was the plow and hand-weeding (which includes hand-pulling, cutting with a knife, hoes and mattocks).”

That's a very long gap till 8,000 BC.

It's implied that @21000BC, they were pulling weeds by hand. Weed killing is part of cultivation. No offense, but you seem completely out of touch with reality, on this topic. I'm not sure you can make a compelling argument without experiencing the simple world of gardening.

https://imgur.com/a/Bly85h8 - these are 2 weeds that have taken over and killed a simple flowering plant from our yard. You can see there are 2 plots that we have spliced from our healthy flowers, where we have been testing weed control methodology, since the neighbors have let these weeds become their lawn. The simple solution seems to be wait until the weed is big enough to have a solid rootball and pull it up manually. This is both the common way for small gardens to be managed AND the only solution for certain invasive species like the Himalayan blackberry which can regrow from stalks or leaves after being mulched and buried - they are resilient to pretty much every pesticide, but they aren't our problem after moving out of WA.

In farmland, you can go over every inch of your acreage and try to spot treat (which won't stop proliferation) or you can uniformly treat, as modern farming currently does.

That’s a logical assumption without direct archaeological support.

Remember we started with wild plants so a significant energy investments beyond throwing seeds may simply have been wasted effort because it’s less needed and has lower rewards. Further removing competitors is a non obvious behavor.

The benefits of a possible harvest increased after destination so the time lag between just tossing seeds and active farming could have been a very long period.

> That’s a logical assumption without direct archaeological support.

It's what people do without any training. It's not necessary to have archaeological support for instinctive behavior. There's no archaeological support people swatted at flies during that time period. Again, this is rather pointless when you're arguing that early man was less capable than a child. GL with whatever.

> Farming existed before weed killing

Farming existed before pesticide.

Farming existed before people.

Humanity has gotten very good at it and weedkilling is a big part of it. But, wild plants propagate quite well on their own, spending seeds of things you want more of results in more of that species. Preparing the environment and selecting seeds ca push that much further but the absolute minimum threshold is very low. Toss eaten apples into your yard, and eventually you get apple trees.

I think your definition of farming might be a wee bit broad.
What in your mind is the clear cut separation between ants cultivating fungus, people tossing specific seeds on the ground 20,000 years ago, and whatever you think of as farming?
Okay I was wondering if you were going to bring ants up because I think that is a good point.

> people tossing specific seeds on the ground 20,000 years ago

This seems irrelevant to whether farming occurred before people.

I don't think the line is very clear cut at all, but it does involve intentional intervention by a species not the plant.

Farming without pesticides existed before we needed to feed 9 billion people.
The world is vastly overproducing food and the industry is optimized for profit, not number of people being fed.

Additionally, billions face food uncertainty. Not because the food is not enough.