[asciiresort]

> he’s also completely unqualified to be called an engineer

What qualifies someone as an engineer? Math? What kind of math?

Building stuff? What kind of stuff?

Writing code? What languages count and what languages don’t? Does CSS count?

Or are you talking about some kind of academic certification or standardized exam?

It seems like you are basing someone’s engineering prowess based on their personal, social, political antics.

[kergonath]

> What qualifies someone as an engineer?

Depends on the country. In some, it's a certification that comes with responsibilities, in others it's just a job. In any case:

1) he hasn't got anything that comes close to an engineering qualification (no, dropping off a Ph.D. after a a B.Sc. is not enough);

2) his job does not involve anything like an engineer's job, which is to "invent, design, analyze, build and test machines, complex systems, structures, gadgets and materials to fulfill functional objectives and requirements while considering the limitations imposed by practicality, regulation, safety and cost." [1]

He is very good at ordering people around, but there is no evidence that he did any of this at any point (though there is a lot of evidence that he got some underlings to do the boring work for him). Again, dumping a pile of money on someone to do it is not the same thing. I can respect that he did take some risks with his investments.

Even if you have an axe to grind and are frustrated by some people not considering software engineering as "proper engineering" (which is how I read your post, though Musk certainly is not a software engineer either), writing CSS for a living is closer to engineering than what Musk is doing.

[1] e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineer

[asciiresort]

> Depends on the country. In some, it's a certification that comes with responsibilities, in others it's just a job. In any case:

Yes, this was a rhetorical question. Those countries that require a certification is not relevant to the discussion, because Elon Musk is operating out of America which does not require a certification to be a software engineer. In which case, by your definition, it's just a job or more specifically a job title. That's useless information because then people without a job title or don't care for one aren't engineers, and people who have the job title would automatically be an engineer. So if Elon Musk changes his job title to engineer instead of CEO, is he qualified now? Maybe he should prefix Senior to the title while he's at it.

> 1) he hasn't got anything that comes close to an engineering qualification (no, dropping off a Ph.D. after a a B.Sc. is not enough);

So people who don't have a Ph.D. aren't engineers?

> his job does not involve anything like an engineer's job, which is to "invent, design, analyze, build and test machines, complex systems, structures, gadgets and materials to fulfill functional objectives and requirements while considering the limitations imposed by practicality, regulation, safety and cost."

Yes, he's a CEO. Are the CEOs of Google and Facebook still engineers if they aren't writing code? And what kind of complex system? Are organizations not complex systems?

> there is no evidence that he did any of this at any point

The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. If you're an engineer, you should understand this.

How do you think someone gets accepted into an engineering PhD, drop out or not, if they've never did any of this at any point in their life?

[kergonath]

> In which case, by your definition, it's just a job or more specifically a job title.

Yes, a job title he bought, which is just as meaningful as the "Tesla founder" title he bought himself.

> So people who don't have a Ph.D. aren't engineers?

The issue is not the lack of a ph.D. It's the lack of anything beside a B.Sc.

> Are the CEOs of Google and Facebook still engineers if they aren't writing code?

Well, those who did an engineer's job are former engineers. If the status is tied to the job title as you imply, then no, a CEO is not an engineer.

> Are organizations not complex systems?

Not one you invent, design, analyze, build, or test. I mean, yes, you can stretch the meaning to the point that putting a motherboard in a PC case is engineering, but don't expect to be taken seriously. Same if you include all bureaucrats and politicians (and a country is vastly more complex than Tesla so they would have a better claim).