[lowbloodsugar]

Watch Ford vs Ferrari to get an idea of what Ford is like. Also be aware that you are not their customer. Their dealers are their customers. This is why a Shelby with an MSRP of $60k goes for $90k, while a faster $72k MSRP Camaro goes for <$70k. Ford makes limited runs so dealers can put insane markups, while GM makes cars for people to buy. (Bonus, when GT350s' rear differentials overheated on the track, Ford said "The GT350 is not a track car" - Shelby is rolling in his grave). Ford's "halo" car is $300k MSRP, GM's is $190k. Guess which one you can actually buy. I have owned three Mustangs including a GT500, and tracked them, and will never buy Ford again.

[tmh88j]

>Also be aware that you are not their customer. Their dealers are their customers.

> Ford makes limited runs so dealers can put insane markups, while GM makes cars for people to buy.

Didn't they just announce fixed price direct to consumer sales for EV's?[1] Regardless, I'm not quite sure what you mean by that. Dealers reap the markups, not Ford, and they're hardly moving any of those trims compared to the F-150 and other "normal" vehicles. If anything it's hurt them. The Focus RS was arguably axed because of dealer greed[2]. Of course Shelby has more fanboys, Chevy doesn't have an equivalent. Ford has made non-Shelby Mustang Cobras in the past and currently have the Mach 1 to replace the Shelby GT350. Having shopped for both I can say with confidence that regular Camaros trims in general tend to be higher marked up than Mustangs because their production volume is much lower, especially with the 1LE package. Ford churns out performance pack Mustangs like they're base models.

[1] https://www.kbb.com/car-news/ford-ceo-wants-future-of-online...

[2] https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2017/07/barks-bites-focus-...

[lowbloodsugar]

>Dealers reap the markups, not Ford

Because the dealers are Ford's customers, not us. Ford makes the dealers happy.

>Didn't they just announce fixed price direct to consumer sales for EV's?

Because they really have to. EVs will be the end of dealers, as Tesla has demonstrated. Tesla has put Ford in a difficult position. Given how dealer friendly Ford is (see above), it will be interesting to see how this plays out. Might simply be that they simply have separate ICE/EV relationships until ICE goes away.

>Ford has made non-Shelby Mustang Cobras in the past and currently have the Mach 1 to replace the Shelby GT350.

Mach 1 MSRP $56k. My local dealer has one for $79k.

>Having shopped for both I can say with confidence that regular Camaros trims in general tend to be higher marked up than Mustangs because their production volume is much lower, especially with the 1LE package.

LOL. My last mustang was a PP and I had to special order it and wait months to avoid paying an extra $10,000 just for shit I didn't want. Sure, at $35k (2016) it was good value for money. I still got the limp mode on the track because of the rear diff, but at least I didn't pay $90k for that privilege!

[tmh88j]

> Because the dealers are Ford's customers, not us. Ford makes the dealers happy.

Repeating the same thing isn't an explanation and that doesn't make any sense. What incentive does Ford have to do that? They arguably lost the Focus RS because of what you're claiming and I provided a link to it. It doesn't help them sell more vehicles and these are only low volume to begin with. Dealers depend on Ford, not the other way around. As the other article I linked pointed out, Ford is moving to direct consumer sales.

> Mach 1 MSRP $56k. My local dealer has one for $79k.

Yes, we know markups exist. Not all dealers do that and it's trivial to find them. https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/2022-mustang-mach-1...

> LOL. My last mustang was a PP and I had to special order it and wait months to avoid paying an extra $10,000 just for shit I didn't want. Sure, at $35k (2016) it was good value for money. I still got the limp mode on the track because of the rear diff, but at least I didn't pay $90k for that privilege!

Are you bragging that you got ripped off? I bought mine new, under MSRP last year. Performance pack Mustangs are easy to come by sitting on dealer lots at MSRP new and even easier used. I wanted an SS 1LE, but I bought a Mustang instead because I was able to get it new for the same price as 3 year old Camaro.

The production volume doesn't even compare. Ford moves significantly more Mustangs annually[1] than Chevy does the Camaro[2], and for the past 3 years it's been 2x as many. Camaros are much harder to come by and hold their value far better used. Unfortunately for me as a buyer it made me favor the Mustang because it made more sense financially. Still a fun car and better for modding, but I would have preferred an SS 1LE over my GT PP

[1] https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/ford-mustang-sales-figures/

[2] https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/chevrolet-camaro-sales-figures...

[mulmen]

I wouldn't consider that movie as an accurate depiction of Ford. The actual GT40 race car benefited greatly by the expertise and resources of Ford. For example they created a computerized(!) drive train simulator that ran the engine and transmission through hundreds of pre-programmed laps. This enabled them to continually refine the drive train and improve reliability.

The movie makes it look like scrappy Carroll Shelby and Ken Miles were simply smarter than the clowns at Ford but that's not the whole story.

[neogodless]

I assume you mean the Ford GT costing $300k. What car from GM sells for $190k? Is it a rare special edition of the Corvette? The base car is $60k, and even the Z06 starts around $90k.

[lowbloodsugar]

The Corvette ZR1 has the same times around a track (e.g. VIR) as the (new) Ford GT. The C7 Z06 is as fast as the older (2005) one.

However, these don't tell the whole story. The GT is pretty highly strung whereas the Corvette's have a lot of room to improve with relatively inexpensive upgrades.

[neogodless]

Is there a version of the ZR1 that's $190k (...currently available)? I thought it started at around $125k.

Overall the Corvette is the halo car... with a range from $60k up to about $125k. But I haven't actually walked into a dealer and asked them how much they'd want to order me up a ZR1 :)