[johnasmith]

I'm Québécois from birth (Trois Rivières). I voted in the incredibly close '95 seperation referendum. In my view, separation or sovereignty would be bad for us.

Separation is mainly predicated on the idea that Québécois are culturally distinct from the rest of Canada, and that our values would be better represented independently. We mostly speak French, and the rest of Canada is predominantly anglo (my New Brunswick Acadian mother in law would have me point out New Brunswick is officially bilingual and has many Francophones). Separatists would argue that there are substantively deeper differences, but having lived abroad in several countries over a decade and returned, any differences seem to me razor thin. We have vastly more in common than separates us. Breaking from Canada to underline these minor differences would come at a tremendous cost.

But creating a movement around identity is easy. So every now and again separatist ideas gather steam. We'll pay through the nose for a Québécois Nation and be no better off for it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_Quebec_referendum

[ekidd]

> Breaking from Canada to underline these minor differences would come at a tremendous cost.

Unfortunately, I suspect that the renewed separatist movement is making a lot of people rethink potential futures in Quebec.

For example, my wife and I would easily meet the requirements to immigrate to Quebec. We have francophone family in Montreal, we speak French (one of us natively), and we have valuable professional skills. We would have no objections to sending our kids to francophone schools. And Montreal is one of my favorite cities on the planet, despite the horrible traffic and interminable road construction.

But looking at law 66, there's a certain cruelty to the details. As I understand it, new arrivals will be forbidden from receiving any government services in a language other than French after 6 months. Montreal's respected English-speaking universities will apparently be placed under strict language rules, with the obvious intention of weakening them. And there's talk, once again, about separation from Canada.

An independent Québec without Canadian human rights guarantees, and with ever more desperate extensions to law 66, would likely weaken the robust international economy of Montreal. I suspect that even some bilingual professionals would start thinking about moving to Toronto?

[ekidd]

OK, so I did some digging at lunch.

First, a correction: Discussion around the web suggests that this won't affect McGill much.

The text of the new law is available here: http://m.assnat.qc.ca/fr/travaux-parlementaires/projets-loi/...

One interesting part is that government offices are generally forbidden to provide English versions of written texts in most situations. There are quite a few exceptions, including tourism, communicating with foreign governments, dealing with First Nations, etc. The most important of these is a health, public security and "natural justice" exception:

> «22.3. Un organisme de l’Administration peut déroger au paragraphe 1° de l’article 13.2 en utilisant, en plus du français, une autre langue lorsqu’il écrit, dans les cas suivants:

> 1° lorsque la santé, la sécurité publique ou les principes de justice naturelle l’exigent;

When dealing with new arrivals to Quebec, government offices may provide written materials in other languages for the first six months. After that, apparently all communications must be solely in French?

Quebec actually has a system for helping immigrants learn French and adapt to life in Quebec. For example, see https://www.quebec.ca/education/apprendre-le-francais/cours-.... From what I've heard, it's not great, but it's better than what's available in some countries. But cutting off all access to bilingual written materials after 6 months (which is my understanding of this text) is obviously going to make it harder to help people assimilate.

One of the industries that will be hardest-hit by this law is Montreal's software industry: https://www.lapresse.ca/affaires/chroniques/2022-06-15/proje...

> Selon le regroupement d’entreprises technos, la nouvelle loi 96 « impose un délai irréaliste, car les nouveaux arrivants doivent jongler avec de multiples défis reliés à leur intégration au sein d’une nouvelle culture et à un changement de vie professionnelle »

Basically: You can't move house, start a demanding new job, adapt to a new culture and reach a high level of French in 6 months. This puts Quebec software companies in a tough place, in terms of recruitment. Probably they'll end up recruiting in other locations.

[moltar]

We are leaving Montreal for the reasons you describe. We are not Francophones and we no longer feel welcomed.

It all feels like the history is repeating itself.

[rayiner]

Speaking a foreign language in a country isn’t a human right. Language is one of the things that defines a country!

[qwedf]

Last I checked, Montreal is in Canada and Canada has two official languages. It's my right

[slindz]

English is not a foreign language in Canada.

The rest of Canada goes to great lengths to provide bilingual support.

It's awful to see English being systematically demonized in Canada.

[rayiner]

Quebec was part of France for more than 200 years before it was forcibly incorporated into British North America. Most French Canadians today are descendants of 800 French women who settled in Quebec from 1663-1673: https://www.cbc.ca/2017/canadathestoryofus/most-french-canad...

Yes, it’s part of Canada now. But maintaining its independent French identity was a fundamental part of the bargain of that union.

[incomingpain]

>Unfortunately, I suspect that the renewed separatist movement is making a lot of people rethink potential futures in Quebec.

How about those Curfews and other insane covid responses?

>But looking at law 66, there's a certain cruelty to the details. As I understand it, new arrivals will be forbidden from receiving any government services in a language other than French after 6 months. Montreal's respected English-speaking universities will apparently be placed under strict language rules, with the obvious intention of weakening them. And there's talk, once again, about separation from Canada.

So lets say I go to Northsec in Montreal, awesome experience. Since I cannot prove I went to an english school. I would only be served in french if I ended up in hospital. Parles pas francais.

So what? I just die in the hospital? I've been to a quebec hospital before. I waited 16 hours in the waiting room because I didnt speak french.

Obviously I'm not going to Montreal anymore. Northsec is awesome but guess not anymore.

>An independent Québec without Canadian human rights guarantees, and with ever more desperate extensions to law 66, would likely weaken the robust international economy of Montreal. I suspect that even some bilingual professionals would start thinking about moving to Toronto?

What you are seeing as a negative the quebec separatists see as a positive.

[snapplebobapple]

Do you think the current crop at the top of the current separatist movement really wants to leave or do you think they are just stoking tension to maintain the crazy subsidy program we have had in place for the last several decades in the face of increasing western objection to the large transfer to Quebec (and several other provinces, most notably the maritimes and territories) and the strengthening separatist movement in the prairies driven by these transfers? Or alternatively, in conjunction with the above do you think it's tension stoking to try to maintain their seats in parliament rather than the slow decline of Quebec federal power as population shifts west? Or is it none of the above and the guys running the show over there really do think it's a good idea to leave?

[bigDinosaur]

What powers does Quebec want that it doesn't actually have?

[bregma]

It's not about power. It's about purity. The hardcore members of the independence movement bandies about what translates as "the pure wool". Today, their arguments are referred to elsewhere as "the great replacement theory".

[jpambrun]

If those hardcore exist, they represent a very small minority.

[bregma]

A small minority that would have won independence if it weren't for the money and the ethnic vote [0]. Nevertheless they've been able to circle the wagons [1].

[0] https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Jacques_Parizeau [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act_respecting_the_laicity_of_...

[newsclues]

Separation would be bad, but threatening to do so is quite the power move.

[qwedf]

It's not about power with Canada, it's about power within the borders to ensure the "pure wool" is not just preserved but any contaminating factors eliminated

[jhbadger]

Exactly. Quebec gets what it wants from Ottawa by having separatism as a threat.

[enriquto]

Sounds like Canada proper would benefit greatly by letting Quebec go, then? Thus they would't bear the heavy burden of these concessions that they are continuously forced to do.

[jamincan]

It would be interesting to see polling about how the rest of Canada feels about Quebec separating now compared to 1995. I was just a child at the time and didn't want Quebec to separate, but now as an adult, I feel much more ambivalent.